https://medium.com/@aytchellis/trans-men-are-men-but-transwomen-are-not-women-7ba7a533e8a5

Medium.com article that I wholeheartedly agree with. What do you guys think?

Maybe explain how?

Also I'm still watching evangilon I've just been busy

The writer bases this presumption on the idea that it's easy for a woman to understand what being a man is like but impossible for a man to understand what being a woman is like.

I would say that if the latter is true, the former must be false, and vice-versa. The terf who wrote this article seems to believe that a male mindset and role in society is very simple, forward, and easy to understand from an outsider's perspective, while a female mindset and role is nebulous and impossible to comprehend if you haven't lived it.

I'd counter that both are equally nebulous, and often misunderstood by closed minded people, but that trans women, and trans men, both have experience as the gender they identify with. To say a trans woman can't understand womanhood is obscene. The assertion basically says that society will continue treating trans women as men, and they retain the privileges of male life after transitioning. This simply isn't true.

Most of society, unfortunately, does not see trans women as women, but they also don't see them as men. They see them as less; not equal. On top of not being seen as a man, they're also subject to prejudice commonly levied against all trans people.

The article also asserts that television and media provide a perfectly clear insight on what being a man is like, what's going on inside the male brain, and what a man's place is in society, while saying that the same is not true of women. Unfortunately, neither is true.

Drama is not real life, and you cannot simply understand what being a man is by watching movies and tv. Indeed, that is merely introspection based on drama that you have watched or read unfold. It's not that you get a clear idea of what being the other gender is like from consuming media written by and about that gender. It's that you come up with your own ideas, using their expression as a sort of mental prompt for your imaginary exploration.

The only way to understand what being a man or being a woman is like is to live as one, and both trans men and trans women have accomplished that.

The ideas of terfs have no place in serious discussions about gender or the reshaping of society, and though they should be free to voice their opinions, it would be pragmatic and wise to ignore them altogether, especially from a policymaker's perspective.

oh and the claim that men have no gender based political interests is a joke

Men have been used, historically, in many ways by women. Different than the ways they use women, but equally troubling. Court's prejudices against men have begun to dwindle, just as women's rights have improved in recent years. However, just as women are still often marginalized, objectified, and taken advantage of, society still often demands that men be stoic caretakers and personal piggy banks for women, and see not only backlash from their peers, but often backlash from the legal system for not playing this role.

Equality means equality. If we want to elevate women to the place they deserve to be in society, we must also remove the gender biased constraints we have placed on men. Otherwise, all we've achieved is switching which gender has too much power.

I don't know about all this but if the trans community knew about Class, they'd disown him in an instant

There is not much difference between man and woman in the first place and the differences that exist show up only in extreme cases and they will be gone with time and technology. Therefore trans men are men (but trans women aren't women) just doesn't hold any substance behind it and can be easily discarded.

Transitions do not have a gender.

Man|_______<-Trans->_______|Woman

Also I'm still watching evangilon I've just been busy

if you were only planning to post about it when you've finished it, i was thinking it might be more fun to actively discuss each episode as you go along, since it's a show that lends itself to in-depth discussion (especially later on)

if you'd rather not do it that way, that's fine, i just think that would be a good way to create more positive activity

It really shouldn't come as a surprise to me that Class herself is a transphobe, but it actually makes a lot of sense when I think about it.

Quote from: Spagelo on May 19, 2020, 05:17:22 PM

It really shouldn't come as a surprise to me that Class herself is a transphobe, but it actually makes a lot of sense when I think about it.

Oh man, you have no idea.

Thinking back, wasn't she a massive transphobe before some people starting telling her that "[she herself was] trans"? I've read and inquired about and heard a lot of stories over time, but I never really traveled far beyond my TVC bubble.

But now, it all seems to be coming together.

Quote from: SecondClass on May 19, 2020, 05:24:46 PM

I'm not a transphobe

what the fuck

I'm sure I don't need to remind you of your extremely transphobic behavior before you more publicly came out and of all the drunk PMs you used to send me. It's self loathing. The primary reason why you didn't want to transition was because you thought trannies were disgusting and you didn't want to become a freak.

Well, I guess in some ways you were partially right.

YEAH NUKA people can change. You are male brained for sure. No fucking empathy, no fucking sympathy.


Watch this and get back to me sir

I'd say it's more misandrist. Class was never one to take kindly to "masculinity".

case In point, transphobe