There's nothing morally wrong with pushing the red button

Mr. Psychologist · September 01, 2015, 01:30:01 PM

Quote from: DemonicChronic on September 01, 2015, 01:08:19 PM

Quote from: ⁭⁭⁭⁭ on September 01, 2015, 01:05:16 PM
If you were born a psychopathic killer you wouldn't see that what you were doing was wrong due to your inheritance and perspective.

I just want to know what kind of infant has the cognitive capability to even be a psychopath.

Quote/reply to me so I remember to answer that one when I get back <.<

Ásgeirr · September 01, 2015, 01:34:20 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on September 01, 2015, 12:54:32 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 01, 2015, 12:52:38 PM
Then yes, that's morally wrong. Killing a single person without their consent is evil, killing trillions of people without their consent is monstrous.
the idea is that there would be no one left to suffer

lol you should watch neon genesis evangelion

Sandtrap · September 01, 2015, 01:38:50 PM

Quote

100% guaranteed greater good

This is also a fundamentally flawed concept because of the way "good" and "bad" are inherently linked with no real separation between the two. You can't have one without the other.

It's not 100% guaranteed greater good because somebody is going to oppose it which therefore makes it a violation of somebody's personal choice.

Now, if everybody agreed on it?

Then it would be 100% guaranteed greater good.

Verbatim · September 01, 2015, 01:59:34 PM

Quote from: ⁭⁭⁭⁭ on September 01, 2015, 01:15:49 PM

How exactly would you be preventing negative sensation from happening in the universe if there was no universe around to harbor it?

i'm sorry, but

that's a really really stupid question, and I can't believe you asked it

that's like saying you can't spill milk and clean it up, because once you clean it up, there's no more spilled milk

by destroying the universe, there is no more possibility of negative sensation occurring at all, anywhere
it doesn't matter that there's no universe--there doesn't need to be

Quote from: ⁭⁭⁭⁭ on September 01, 2015, 01:38:50 PM

It's not 100% guaranteed greater good because somebody is going to oppose it which therefore makes it a violation of somebody's personal choice.

most children oppose vaccines

why?

because needles are scary

it doesn't matter what the dumbfuck individual thinks--it's an objective greater good

Jim · September 01, 2015, 02:02:31 PM

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Ingy · September 01, 2015, 02:03:49 PM

This is the same guy who is a vegan and thinks owning pets is morally wrong

You wouldn't be my first choice to consult when it comes to morals mate

Verbatim · September 01, 2015, 02:05:25 PM

SecondClass at a surprise birthday party:

"...WHAT? What do you mean 'surprise'? I didn't consent to this! This is EVIL! You are ALL EVIL! Don't you know that consent is the fucking basis of all morality!? Ugh, I bet that cake's ingredients were made with GMOs... I hate you all."

Jim · September 01, 2015, 02:06:21 PM

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Verbatim · September 01, 2015, 02:07:45 PM

Quote from: Jim on September 01, 2015, 02:06:21 PM

Nothing wrong with that line of thinking. Some people don't like birthday parties, and to be surprised by one would be a negative experience.

Then the onus is on you to let people know that. Some people don't mind being surprised. I can think of innumerable other scenarios where it's permissible to break consent as long as the outcome is a net positive.

Verbatim · September 01, 2015, 02:08:34 PM

Quote from: Ingloriouswho98 on September 01, 2015, 02:03:49 PM

thinks owning pets is morally wrong

I've never said this. I've described it as "ethically questionable".

Ingy · September 01, 2015, 02:08:41 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on September 01, 2015, 02:05:25 PM

SecondClass at a surprise birthday party:

"...WHAT? What do you mean 'surprise'? I didn't consent to this! This is EVIL! You are ALL EVIL! Don't you know that consent is the fucking basis of all morality!? Ugh, I bet that cake's ingredients were made with GMOs... I hate you all."

That is healthy thinking when not applied to dumbass analogies like this

Ushan · September 01, 2015, 02:09:16 PM

You can push my red button, Verb.

Jim · September 01, 2015, 02:10:33 PM

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Ingy · September 01, 2015, 02:11:29 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on September 01, 2015, 02:08:34 PM

Quote from: Ingloriouswho98 on September 01, 2015, 02:03:49 PM
thinks owning pets is morally wrong
I've never said this. I've described it as "ethically questionable".

Exactly
Even that shows a sensitive mind ready to lash out at anything that might be considered "cruelty"

And having pets is ethically wuestionable but destroying billions of children, lives, and family isn't lol

Verbatim · September 01, 2015, 02:12:27 PM

Quote from: Ingloriouswho98 on September 01, 2015, 02:11:29 PM

destroying billions of children, lives, and family isn't lol

Nope. Not if there's no one left to suffer. Which is the best thing that could possibly happen, ever.

Anonymous (User Deleted) · September 01, 2015, 02:16:31 PM

Quote from: Kaptein Svartbær on September 01, 2015, 02:09:16 PM

You can push my red button, Verb.

kinky

Verbatim · September 01, 2015, 02:18:25 PM

Quote from: Jim on September 01, 2015, 02:10:33 PM

Some people like sex, so some people probably wouldn't mind being raped.

what's your point

Jim · September 01, 2015, 02:18:40 PM

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Verbatim · September 01, 2015, 02:19:33 PM

Quote from: Jim on September 01, 2015, 02:18:40 PM

The concept of morality means nothing if it cannot exist.

Morality cannot exist sans existence itself.

you're never going to convince me that I can't have morals just because i'm an atheist

ever

Jim · September 01, 2015, 02:19:36 PM

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Sandtrap · September 01, 2015, 02:19:46 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on September 01, 2015, 01:59:34 PM

Quote from: ⁭⁭⁭⁭ on September 01, 2015, 01:15:49 PM
How exactly would you be preventing negative sensation from happening in the universe if there was no universe around to harbor it?
i'm sorry, but

that's a really really stupid question, and I can't believe you asked it

that's like saying you can't spill milk and clean it up, because once you clean it up, there's no more spilled milk

by destroying the universe, there is no more possibility of negative sensation occurring at all, anywhere
it doesn't matter that there's no universe--there doesn't need to be

Quote from: ⁭⁭⁭⁭ on September 01, 2015, 01:38:50 PM
It's not 100% guaranteed greater good because somebody is going to oppose it which therefore makes it a violation of somebody's personal choice.
most children oppose vaccines

why?

because needles are scary

it doesn't matter what the dumbfuck individual thinks--it's an objective greater good

That's if we're taking morality into account. When morality doesn't actually exist. It actually means nothing but to the people who have their respective viewpoints on it. Kill a species. Universe don't give a fuck. Blow up some solar systems. Universe doesn't give a fuck. Blow up the universe and it wouldn't give a fuck.

It's just simply there. There is no objective greater good or greater evil, really, because no matter what we do we are still confined to the physical limitations and restrictions of its barriers.

It's like a sandbox. The sandbox doesn't attack you if you step in it, nor does it give you a pat on the back for making a neat sand castle.

Let's say a kid falls down in the sandbox and lands on a rock that was there just because that's sometimes what you find in a sandbox.

Are you going to demolish the sandbox because of the potential for rocks or are you going to just remove all the fucking rocks because if you're persistent enough you can?

And, yeah, I know the first statement is rickety. If I could explain it in a better manner I would but for now I'll leave things be.

Verbatim · September 01, 2015, 02:20:08 PM

Quote from: Jim on September 01, 2015, 02:19:36 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on September 01, 2015, 02:18:25 PM
Quote from: Jim on September 01, 2015, 02:10:33 PM
Some people like sex, so some people probably wouldn't mind being raped.
what's your point
Nothing wrong with rape then because it's on you to tell people you do not wish to have "surprise sex."

godawful analogy

Jim · September 01, 2015, 02:20:26 PM

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Dopameme · September 01, 2015, 02:23:14 PM

we need more threads like this in the flood

Ingy · September 01, 2015, 02:24:07 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on September 01, 2015, 02:12:27 PM

Quote from: Ingloriouswho98 on September 01, 2015, 02:11:29 PM
destroying billions of children, lives, and family isn't lol
Nope. Not if there's no one left to suffer. Which is the best thing that could possibly happen, ever.

So by that line of reasoning, you should stop being a vegan because when they die, they stop suffering anyways

Verbatim · September 01, 2015, 02:25:35 PM

Quote from: ⁭⁭⁭⁭ on September 01, 2015, 02:19:46 PM

That's if we're taking morality into account. When morality doesn't actually exist. It actually means nothing but to the people who have their respective viewpoints on it. Kill a species. Universe don't give a fuck. Blow up some solar systems. Universe doesn't give a fuck. Blow up the universe and it wouldn't give a fuck.

why should I give a fuck if the universe doesn't give a fuck

that's not an argument against the existence of ethics

Quote

Let's say a kid falls down in the sandbox and lands on a rock that was there just because that's sometimes what you find in a sandbox.

Are you going to demolish the sandbox because of the potential for rocks or are you going to just remove all the fucking rocks because if you're persistent enough you can?

that analogy doesn't work because the neither the sandbox nor the rocks have anything that resembles sentience or agency or a "will"

if you punch someone in the face for no good reason, you've committed an ethical transgression
and I know, I know--"but what's a good reason"

it's common fucking sense, sandtrap--you don't walk down the street and just swing at people randomly
that's bad

it's bad because it doesn't alleviate or solve any concurrent negative--it only creates a negative sensation

now, obviously, you can illustrate scenarios where striking somebody would actually be a net good
but this doesn't mean that there's no objective system of ethics--in fact, it confirms it

Turkey · September 01, 2015, 02:25:40 PM

When Marty McFly changed the past, did he commit a form of genocide?

If your answer is 'no', I think you agree with Verbatim.

Verbatim · September 01, 2015, 02:26:41 PM

Quote from: Ingloriouswho98 on September 01, 2015, 02:24:07 PM

So by that line of reasoning, you should stop being a vegan because when they die, they stop suffering anyways

Wrong. That would only work if they died instantly after birth. Which they don't.

Verbatim · September 01, 2015, 02:28:22 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on September 01, 2015, 02:25:40 PM

When Marty McFly changed the past, did he commit a form of genocide?

If your answer is 'no', I think you agree with Verbatim.

what an interesting point

kudos

Jim · September 01, 2015, 02:32:57 PM

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