And also, better ships? Lets say, the Forerunners come equip with stuff that is stronger than hundreds of NOVA bombs. A single battleship being able to wipe out multiple stars in firepower, like the Didact's Mantle Approach, an old and support ship was bigger than the friggin Death Star II.

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 04, 2015, 07:31:42 PM

Quote from: Avatar on October 04, 2015, 07:24:36 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 04, 2015, 07:19:00 PM

Quote from: Avatar on October 04, 2015, 07:04:44 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 04, 2015, 06:58:26 PM

Quote from: I_IRONMAN_I on October 04, 2015, 06:52:27 PM

No Wankperor.

But even with him alive, the Emberor is powered by the faith of people (I believe). And when the Forerunner starts blowing up star systems and blowing up planets, I'm sure that his power will fade as people lose faith.

Cry more.

The Emperor was a God powered being even before the faith in the Emperor started to supercharge his psychic imprint in the warp.

Oh no blowing up a few planets, whatever will the feeble hearted folk of the Imperium do.

It's not like the Imperium itself routinely burns entire planets to ashes, detonates their cores and atomises the rubble. Or that every day more and more planets fall to daemonic incursion. Or the Nids. Or the Tau. Or the Eldar Pirates. Or the Necrons. Or the Chaos Marines. Or the Orks.

Whatever will they do, they must be quaking at the thought of a few planets, star systems and subsectors being liquidated.

His power isn't a malleable thing based on faith points, the accumulated psychic imprint of the entire species has created a warp entity in the form of the Emperor which is at the same time the Emperor. Killing a few trillion humans won't do jack shit in 40k.

Forerunners are closer to super-civilizations like the Culture and stuff than the IoM. Book Forerunners would deploy so fast though slipspace that the Imperium would lag behind.

Terra would be the only planet that would take years to besiege and conquer because...well its Terra. What the Imperium has going for them in standard infantry are flashlight guys against the Warrior-Servants, the Space Marines against the superior numbers of the ancient Prometheans, and their warships are outclassed by the Forerunner battleships. Contender-class AIs would render most of the IoM's naval ships useless and allow the rest of the Forerunner armada to mop the floor...or space with the inferior Imperial ships.

This is like comparing the Galactic Empire with United Federation of Planets.

Hmm, well that would depend on which universe they decided to fight in.

If the forerunners were on the offensive, they'd be in the 40kverse and so they'd either have to ask the eldar very nicely about the webway or they'd be slogging through the warp. Without Gellar fields. That ends well.

But giving them the +1 handicap, because they need it, say they had the slipspace FTL advantage - That's all well and good for rapid deployment but then they tend to run into a bit of a problem. The Imperium doesn't give a shit about 98% of the planets in it's Empire, because they are all pretty much expendable.

Forge Worlds, Fortress Worlds, Space Marine homeworlds and Terra are the kind of places that count.

At any given time the amount of forces defending each of these locations is utterly overwhelming, it takes something like the 3rd war for Armageddon to draw forces away from these locations willingly.

The forerunner ships might have some nice fancy stuff going for them, but some of the bigger IoM spacecraft would still batter them to hell and back. Stick a few nova cannons into the fleets and that'll be GG for basically anything in the firing line.

Then to take the ground on each planet?

Good luck on that one, the IOM has trillions (not exaggerated) of flashlighters and figures vary but around about a million odd space marines. Quite aside from the toys the ad mech roll out to play.

Like Cadia for example.

13 black crusades and counting.

I think that the Eldar would allow them, since you know...fuck the humans right? lol

Well, then the Forerunners would have to wisely use their AIs, Strategos and military leaders who have served for thousands of years. But if it were fleet against fleet, the IoM side would be annihilated. Wiping out planet after planet would be a severe waste of resources, and the Forerunners would use some other type of offensive plans.

It's unlikely but equally likely. The Eldar are so far up their own arse with reading the runes and staring into the future they tend to only wake up when you have a bayonet through their abdomen.

The IOM is the ultimate meatgrinder, that's why it comes out on top. Not in the first war, the second or even the third. But it always overcomes.

The forerunners might break one fleet, the might break them all but the shipyards at Bakka-Triu and Jupiter would crank out another few hundred in the time it took them to wipe.

Everything in the Imperium is expendable barring the forgeworlds and terra really. Short of completely annihilating the IoM down to the last man there would always be one more guardsman with one more lasgun ready to shoot at one more forerunner.

If they didn't have that, they would have collapsed under the weight of 15k years of total war e.e

The KD would be atrocious I'm sure, but this is an Empire that spawned the Death Korps of Krieg. Every man, woman and child on that planet exists simply to die for the Emperor or make more children to die for the Emperor. They have no souls, lives or anything. Just one long march to the grave. Or a short one.

I don't think the forerunners have quite that amount of numbers or resources, or fanaticism that the catholic church could only hope to dream of.

e.e

Really, the Eldar are annoying. But then again, the humans are equally as stupid. And yeah, the problem are numbers, the Forerunners would need to be in a neutral universe to pump out more troops to equalize the Forge Worlds. Its a problem of quality against quantity for the Forerunners, last time they faced something like that they used the Halo Array.

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 04, 2015, 07:19:00 PM

13 black crusades and counting.

Wouldn't say counting, exactly, since the thirteenth is the last, but overall you make a good point.

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 04, 2015, 07:31:42 PM

Quote from: Avatar on October 04, 2015, 07:24:36 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 04, 2015, 07:19:00 PM

Quote from: Avatar on October 04, 2015, 07:04:44 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 04, 2015, 06:58:26 PM

Quote from: I_IRONMAN_I on October 04, 2015, 06:52:27 PM

No Wankperor.

But even with him alive, the Emberor is powered by the faith of people (I believe). And when the Forerunner starts blowing up star systems and blowing up planets, I'm sure that his power will fade as people lose faith.

Cry more.

The Emperor was a God powered being even before the faith in the Emperor started to supercharge his psychic imprint in the warp.

Oh no blowing up a few planets, whatever will the feeble hearted folk of the Imperium do.

It's not like the Imperium itself routinely burns entire planets to ashes, detonates their cores and atomises the rubble. Or that every day more and more planets fall to daemonic incursion. Or the Nids. Or the Tau. Or the Eldar Pirates. Or the Necrons. Or the Chaos Marines. Or the Orks.

Whatever will they do, they must be quaking at the thought of a few planets, star systems and subsectors being liquidated.

His power isn't a malleable thing based on faith points, the accumulated psychic imprint of the entire species has created a warp entity in the form of the Emperor which is at the same time the Emperor. Killing a few trillion humans won't do jack shit in 40k.

Forerunners are closer to super-civilizations like the Culture and stuff than the IoM. Book Forerunners would deploy so fast though slipspace that the Imperium would lag behind.

Terra would be the only planet that would take years to besiege and conquer because...well its Terra. What the Imperium has going for them in standard infantry are flashlight guys against the Warrior-Servants, the Space Marines against the superior numbers of the ancient Prometheans, and their warships are outclassed by the Forerunner battleships. Contender-class AIs would render most of the IoM's naval ships useless and allow the rest of the Forerunner armada to mop the floor...or space with the inferior Imperial ships.

This is like comparing the Galactic Empire with United Federation of Planets.

Hmm, well that would depend on which universe they decided to fight in.

If the forerunners were on the offensive, they'd be in the 40kverse and so they'd either have to ask the eldar very nicely about the webway or they'd be slogging through the warp. Without Gellar fields. That ends well.

But giving them the +1 handicap, because they need it, say they had the slipspace FTL advantage - That's all well and good for rapid deployment but then they tend to run into a bit of a problem. The Imperium doesn't give a shit about 98% of the planets in it's Empire, because they are all pretty much expendable.

Forge Worlds, Fortress Worlds, Space Marine homeworlds and Terra are the kind of places that count.

At any given time the amount of forces defending each of these locations is utterly overwhelming, it takes something like the 3rd war for Armageddon to draw forces away from these locations willingly.

The forerunner ships might have some nice fancy stuff going for them, but some of the bigger IoM spacecraft would still batter them to hell and back. Stick a few nova cannons into the fleets and that'll be GG for basically anything in the firing line.

Then to take the ground on each planet?

Good luck on that one, the IOM has trillions (not exaggerated) of flashlighters and figures vary but around about a million odd space marines. Quite aside from the toys the ad mech roll out to play.

Like Cadia for example.

13 black crusades and counting.

I think that the Eldar would allow them, since you know...fuck the humans right? lol

Well, then the Forerunners would have to wisely use their AIs, Strategos and military leaders who have served for thousands of years. But if it were fleet against fleet, the IoM side would be annihilated. Wiping out planet after planet would be a severe waste of resources, and the Forerunners would use some other type of offensive plans.

It's unlikely but equally likely. The Eldar are so far up their own arse with reading the runes and staring into the future they tend to only wake up when you have a bayonet through their abdomen.

The IOM is the ultimate meatgrinder, that's why it comes out on top. Not in the first war, the second or even the third. But it always overcomes.

The forerunners might break one fleet, the might break them all but the shipyards at Bakka-Triu and Jupiter would crank out another few hundred in the time it took them to wipe.

Everything in the Imperium is expendable barring the forgeworlds and terra really. Short of completely annihilating the IoM down to the last man there would always be one more guardsman with one more lasgun ready to shoot at one more forerunner.

If they didn't have that, they would have collapsed under the weight of 15k years of total war e.e

The KD would be atrocious I'm sure, but this is an Empire that spawned the Death Korps of Krieg. Every man, woman and child on that planet exists simply to die for the Emperor or make more children to die for the Emperor. They have no souls, lives or anything. Just one long march to the grave. Or a short one.

I don't think the forerunners have quite that amount of numbers or resources, or fanaticism that the catholic church could only hope to dream of.

e.e

If only you knew the insanity of the Forerunner's industrial capacity. Let's look at Onyx from Glasslands.

Quote

Halo Glasslands; ch 15.

“Here we go,” BB said. “Stand by.”
Mal was still trying not to blink and miss it when the stars suddenly vanished and he felt a weird tugging at his boots as if the deck beneath him was sprung. The trampoline sensation stopped as quickly as it started, but the stars didn’t reappear.
“Oh my, that was spectacular,” BB said. “No, seriously. It was. You should see what that looked like in the microwave spectrum. And the magnetic field. Extraordinary. But it’s not really a Dyson sphere, not as Dyson hypothesized, because a solid shell wouldn’t—”
 “Go on, rub it in.” Mal felt cheated. “So why can’t we see it? Or any stars?”
And then it dawned on him. He was looking at the sphere. It was pretty well all he could see. His view of space was completely obscured by a vast, matte black sphere, and he could only tell what he was looking at because there was a dim arc like a crescent moon, the curve of the sphere picked out by the distant light of Onyx’s sun. That sphere was as big as Earth’s orbit. The expansion was both a massive anticlimax and the most amazing thing he’d ever—never—seen.

That's a lot of building. Lets say that this was built in an 8,000 yr long period. (ala the end of Human-Forerunner War to the Dildact's exile).

Let's take this guy's quote. You can do the math yourself if you want.

Quote

The Sharpened Shield is roughly 300 million km in diameter with a G2 type star slightly smaller than Sol at the core, with a volume of roughly 7 septillion km^3 she boasted a habitable surface area of 255 quadrillion km^2 (some 550 million times the surface area of Earth). Assuming the Shield has a paltry 2 km thick shell the overall volume of the structure would equal 282 quadrillion km^3 of material (which assuming it had a density of iron would weigh more than the sun itself); even if Didact began construction of the project immediately following the end of the Human-Forerunner war and it continued up until his exile in an 8,000 year time period as a lower limit the Forerunners would have to assemble 1,120,716 cubic kilometers of material per second.

Imagine the number of vessels they roflspam from that kind of industry??? Building the Sharpened Shield in 8,000 yrs is a low end limit to the guy. Which is essentially building a Death Star every five minutes. Even if it took 10,000 or 15,000 yrs to build it, it's still an insane amount of material being set into construction.

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 05, 2015, 06:05:15 AM

Quote from: I_IRONMAN_I on October 04, 2015, 11:53:25 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 04, 2015, 07:31:42 PM

Quote from: Avatar on October 04, 2015, 07:24:36 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 04, 2015, 07:19:00 PM

Quote from: Avatar on October 04, 2015, 07:04:44 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 04, 2015, 06:58:26 PM

Quote from: I_IRONMAN_I on October 04, 2015, 06:52:27 PM

No Wankperor.

But even with him alive, the Emberor is powered by the faith of people (I believe). And when the Forerunner starts blowing up star systems and blowing up planets, I'm sure that his power will fade as people lose faith.

Cry more.

The Emperor was a God powered being even before the faith in the Emperor started to supercharge his psychic imprint in the warp.

Oh no blowing up a few planets, whatever will the feeble hearted folk of the Imperium do.

It's not like the Imperium itself routinely burns entire planets to ashes, detonates their cores and atomises the rubble. Or that every day more and more planets fall to daemonic incursion. Or the Nids. Or the Tau. Or the Eldar Pirates. Or the Necrons. Or the Chaos Marines. Or the Orks.

Whatever will they do, they must be quaking at the thought of a few planets, star systems and subsectors being liquidated.

His power isn't a malleable thing based on faith points, the accumulated psychic imprint of the entire species has created a warp entity in the form of the Emperor which is at the same time the Emperor. Killing a few trillion humans won't do jack shit in 40k.

Forerunners are closer to super-civilizations like the Culture and stuff than the IoM. Book Forerunners would deploy so fast though slipspace that the Imperium would lag behind.

Terra would be the only planet that would take years to besiege and conquer because...well its Terra. What the Imperium has going for them in standard infantry are flashlight guys against the Warrior-Servants, the Space Marines against the superior numbers of the ancient Prometheans, and their warships are outclassed by the Forerunner battleships. Contender-class AIs would render most of the IoM's naval ships useless and allow the rest of the Forerunner armada to mop the floor...or space with the inferior Imperial ships.

This is like comparing the Galactic Empire with United Federation of Planets.

Hmm, well that would depend on which universe they decided to fight in.

If the forerunners were on the offensive, they'd be in the 40kverse and so they'd either have to ask the eldar very nicely about the webway or they'd be slogging through the warp. Without Gellar fields. That ends well.

But giving them the +1 handicap, because they need it, say they had the slipspace FTL advantage - That's all well and good for rapid deployment but then they tend to run into a bit of a problem. The Imperium doesn't give a shit about 98% of the planets in it's Empire, because they are all pretty much expendable.

Forge Worlds, Fortress Worlds, Space Marine homeworlds and Terra are the kind of places that count.

At any given time the amount of forces defending each of these locations is utterly overwhelming, it takes something like the 3rd war for Armageddon to draw forces away from these locations willingly.

The forerunner ships might have some nice fancy stuff going for them, but some of the bigger IoM spacecraft would still batter them to hell and back. Stick a few nova cannons into the fleets and that'll be GG for basically anything in the firing line.

Then to take the ground on each planet?

Good luck on that one, the IOM has trillions (not exaggerated) of flashlighters and figures vary but around about a million odd space marines. Quite aside from the toys the ad mech roll out to play.

Like Cadia for example.

13 black crusades and counting.

I think that the Eldar would allow them, since you know...fuck the humans right? lol

Well, then the Forerunners would have to wisely use their AIs, Strategos and military leaders who have served for thousands of years. But if it were fleet against fleet, the IoM side would be annihilated. Wiping out planet after planet would be a severe waste of resources, and the Forerunners would use some other type of offensive plans.

It's unlikely but equally likely. The Eldar are so far up their own arse with reading the runes and staring into the future they tend to only wake up when you have a bayonet through their abdomen.

The IOM is the ultimate meatgrinder, that's why it comes out on top. Not in the first war, the second or even the third. But it always overcomes.

The forerunners might break one fleet, the might break them all but the shipyards at Bakka-Triu and Jupiter would crank out another few hundred in the time it took them to wipe.

Everything in the Imperium is expendable barring the forgeworlds and terra really. Short of completely annihilating the IoM down to the last man there would always be one more guardsman with one more lasgun ready to shoot at one more forerunner.

If they didn't have that, they would have collapsed under the weight of 15k years of total war e.e

The KD would be atrocious I'm sure, but this is an Empire that spawned the Death Korps of Krieg. Every man, woman and child on that planet exists simply to die for the Emperor or make more children to die for the Emperor. They have no souls, lives or anything. Just one long march to the grave. Or a short one.

I don't think the forerunners have quite that amount of numbers or resources, or fanaticism that the catholic church could only hope to dream of.

e.e

If only you knew the insanity of the Forerunner's industrial capacity. Let's look at Onyx from Glasslands.

Quote

Halo Glasslands; ch 15.

“Here we go,” BB said. “Stand by.”
Mal was still trying not to blink and miss it when the stars suddenly vanished and he felt a weird tugging at his boots as if the deck beneath him was sprung. The trampoline sensation stopped as quickly as it started, but the stars didn’t reappear.
“Oh my, that was spectacular,” BB said. “No, seriously. It was. You should see what that looked like in the microwave spectrum. And the magnetic field. Extraordinary. But it’s not really a Dyson sphere, not as Dyson hypothesized, because a solid shell wouldn’t—”
 “Go on, rub it in.” Mal felt cheated. “So why can’t we see it? Or any stars?”
And then it dawned on him. He was looking at the sphere. It was pretty well all he could see. His view of space was completely obscured by a vast, matte black sphere, and he could only tell what he was looking at because there was a dim arc like a crescent moon, the curve of the sphere picked out by the distant light of Onyx’s sun. That sphere was as big as Earth’s orbit. The expansion was both a massive anticlimax and the most amazing thing he’d ever—never—seen.

That's a lot of building. Lets say that this was built in an 8,000 yr long period. (ala the end of Human-Forerunner War to the Dildact's exile).

Let's take this guy's quote. You can do the math yourself if you want.

Quote

The Sharpened Shield is roughly 300 million km in diameter with a G2 type star slightly smaller than Sol at the core, with a volume of roughly 7 septillion km^3 she boasted a habitable surface area of 255 quadrillion km^2 (some 550 million times the surface area of Earth). Assuming the Shield has a paltry 2 km thick shell the overall volume of the structure would equal 282 quadrillion km^3 of material (which assuming it had a density of iron would weigh more than the sun itself); even if Didact began construction of the project immediately following the end of the Human-Forerunner war and it continued up until his exile in an 8,000 year time period as a lower limit the Forerunners would have to assemble 1,120,716 cubic kilometers of material per second.

Imagine the number of vessels they roflspam from that kind of industry??? Building the Sharpened Shield in 8,000 yrs is a low end limit to the guy. Which is essentially building a Death Star every five minutes. Even if it took 10,000 or 15,000 yrs to build it, it's still an insane amount of material being set into construction.

Insanity would be an apt description really, there is realistic and there is overpowered and there is moving that kind of quantity of material around at that rate.

But hey, Halo basically needs every handicap it can get so we'll let them have that.

Now the one thing that would be amusing to see, is what an Alpha++ Psyker could do to the forerunners. Let alone multiple A++ Psykers working in concert. Warpstorms are pretty much GG for anything in the system, letting one of those rip when the forerunners turn up would leave them amusingly graped. If the forerunners can be infected by flood, they can be possessed by daemons. Whilst they aren't the usual soldiers of the emperor, the IOM knows how to summon them because it needs to know how to stop people summoning them.
That's a fire and forget, then sit down and shoot yourself kind of thing to do though.

The forerunners wouldn't have pariahs, since that is a unique genetic mutation in humans. One in a billion humans are born with it and that makes them a null force to psychic power. Which means they'd be struggling to find a hard counter to a psyker onslaught. Equally at home boiling the blood of the enemy and shooting lightning out of their arms as they are using hammerhand to shred through anything with their bare hands.

Quite aside from the mind wars, possession and driving them to insanity that is routine for anyone working around psykers let alone being on the wrong end of the pointed stick.

Wouldn't summoning daemons be considered heresy? That sounds really counter-productive and something that Imperials would not do.