In the ongoing angry letters over taxes and definitions in relation to the SB15 arm brace

The ATF may have actually said that shooting a handgun two handed is Illegal without a tax.

Basically it comes down to what qualifies as a pistol, what qualifies as a short barreled rifle (SBR), and what qualifies as an "Any other weapon (AOW [Shotgun in pistol for])."

An AR-15 with the SB15 arm brace strapped to your arm shooting 1 handed? A-Okay
An AR-15 with the SB15 arm brace against your shoulder like a stock? SBR requiring form 1.
an AOW with the SB15 amr brace against your shoulder like a stock? Short barreled Shotgun (SBS) requiring form 1.
A standard handgun being shot with two hands? Potentially SBR requiring Form 1.

Sounds crazy? Well let me show you what the ATF just said in a new letter about the brace. Letter from the ATF, only two pages.

But what about the whole handgun and two hands thing? Well it comes down to one excerpt from that letter with a definition of "redesign." This definition they come up with is in relation to the arm brace and at what point a rifle with the arm brace stops being a pistol and starts being a rifle.

Posted By: ATF
The GCA does not define the term “redesign” and therefore ATF applies the common meaning.
“Redesign” is defined as “to alter the appearance or function of.”

the other important bit.

Posted by:Bureau of dog shootin- I mean Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
The pistol stabilizing brace was neither “designed” nor approved to be used as a shoulder stock,
and therefore use as a shoulder stock constitutes a “redesign” of the device because a possessor
has changed the very function of the item.

Now what does that mean? Well lets take the Miriam Webster's definition of a pistol.

Posted By:The Dictionary
pis·tol
ˈpistl/Submit
noun
1.
a small firearm designed to be held in one hand.

So Pistols are designed to be shot with one hand? So be the words of the ATF, shooting a pistol with two hands is redesigning the firearm to perform in a function that was not originally intended. But okay, that's the Webster's definition. What about the ATF's definition?

Posted By:The ATF
Pistol
18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(29) and 27 CFR § 478.11

The term “Pistol” means a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having:

a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s);

and a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

I'll be damned, it's the same definition for the most part.

So, the act of shooting a handgun with two hands is actually redesigning it from it's original intended design and thus subject to the National Firearms Act which requires you to have a Form 1 for manufacture of an SBR. Or at least that's what it could mean. There will probably be another letter in a few days clarifying the clarification of a clarification's clarification. That is literally how convoluted this whole thing has become. Letters saying it's okay, then it's not okay, then it's okay, then shooting a handgun out of it's intended design is not okay.

I don't know if the ATF is intentionally fucking with gun owners, if they are truly incompetent, or if they are all clinically retarded. With their actions in the past I lean towards incompetent with a huge dose of clinically retarded, but that's just me.

There you go folks, your tax dollars hard at work over a piece of rubber on the end of an AR-15 pistol.

How do we fire the government, again?

How do we fire the government, again?

Head of the ATF is appointed. Staff is hired.

Isn't that fun? Appointed officials and hired staff making determinations of the law on what is legal and what isn't? Oh, and get this, you illegally manufacture an SBR, SBS, or AOW and you are not guilty of firearms crime, you are guilty of....wait for it....TAX EVASION! YAY!

We now need go train all police officers to fire thier guns 1 handed

I'm a little confused as to where you're getting this idea that firing with two hands counts as redesigning. They said the stabilizing brace does, but nowhere do they say a second hand does so.

I think you're looking too far in to what a "redesign" entails...

The ATF is still dumb though.

I'm a little confused as to where you're getting this idea that firing with two hands counts as redesigning. They said the stabilizing brace does, but nowhere do they say a second hand does so.

Read the second atf quote. It says what constitutes a redesign in the eyes of the atf. Then read the atf's definition of a pistol.

It clearly states that a pistol is a firearm that is designed to be fired with one hand.

With the precedent set with the verbiage of the atfs declaration about the Sig brace and what constitutes a redesign. The act of shooting a pistol in a way it was not designed for redisgns the pistol.

While no, it doesn't say shooting a handgun two handed is illegal, but the verbiage on what constitutes a redesign is incredibly vague and could be used to declare a right way and a wing way to shoot a pistol.

It's basically the atf sliding hair on how you can shoot your pistol.

Good thing my handgun is a handgun and not a pistol ; )