Might be a daft comparison but it's probably just dependant on your mindset. Do you do your homework the night you get it or five minutes before you need to hand it in kind of thing.

Not a great comparison. Since doing your homework early most of the time benefits you.

Quote from: Pippen on July 05, 2016, 10:28:22 AM

Quote from: BaconShelf on July 05, 2016, 10:04:13 AM

Juno is going to within 3000km of Jupiter's cloud layer. Provided all goes well, this is the first time we've sent anything this far into the atmosphere of a giant. We can expect more detailed atmospheric samples, a better understanding of how the planet formed, advancements in our understanding of how magnetic fields and radiation work, a better look at the planet's van allen belt, and a bunch of other stuff that advances our understanding of the universe and the ever slim possibility of discovering microorganisms living in the upper atmosphere and more. To assume we wouldn't learn anything from it just belies how you have no idea what you're talking about.

When did I say learn?
I meant HELP.
How does it HELP us right now?
Learning more about the gas giant is good, i'm fine with that. However they are putting a lot of money into something that could only go three ways.

1: We learn a lot more about Jupiter, yaaay.
2: It was a complete waste of time.
3: We have a huge discovery which could benefit us greatly.

That 3rd is has a 1 out of 1000000 chance of happening, while the 1st and 2nd options Have a 60/40 chance of happening respectively.
Even if we discover more about Jupiter, what could we possibly gain from that? More Knowledge? Okay, knowledge is fine, but can't help us if it's a 5 year probe trip away.
Just trying to think practically here.

No, you're not. You want to know how it affects you, right now. You don't actually have any interest in knowing about any of this, you just want to know how it will benefit you now, and if it doesn't? Well then it's pointless amirite?

You guys aren't getting what I mean.

What POSSIBLY can humanity gain, not me, from doing this? Sure. Setting the foundation and all is good. However I clearly said I could get if it was Mars or Venus.
Mars or Venus still have a lot that is unknown about them. However we are capable of actually GETTING to that point. Why not push for Mars or Venus research instead of the gas giant 500 million+ miles away?

The reason we're doing it now is because some very smart people decided this would be a worthwhile expedition to make and would advance our knowledge of the universe.

Pip mentioned Venus or Mars, presumably because they're closer and we might be able to go to them at some point. The thing with that is Venus is nearly impossible to study due to the composition of the atmosphere. (We've only gotten a handful of pictures of the surface because of a Russian probe that landed and subsequently burned away in sulfuric rain. It only lasted 30 minutes or so). For Mars, we know plenty about it and as much as we learn about the planet it doesn't really advance our ability to travel there, nor does NASA have the money for such an undertaking. More work has to be done in order to make a Mars Human expedition a reality.

Also 1 billion isn't that much on the scale of space travel. Hell, every space shuttle launch costed around half of that amount and they did over 130 of those!

holy shit a reasonable answer that didn't just say "op you're a retard we could learn about magnets and shit!!!!!!111!!1!1"

Quote from: Pippen on July 05, 2016, 10:28:22 AM

NASA's whole deal is literally "For the benefit of all" That's their motto.
A great deal of things you take for granted in your own home have come because of the advancements made by the people looking to make human life sustainable aboard tin cans in a place where there is literally nothing to breathe. So even if the mission does not directly make your life easier, it's a worthwhile thing to do.

And it isn't NASA's job to make your life easier either. That's just a caveat of their discoveries. Their job is to make humans better and help us survive in outer space. They're not some humanitarian organization.

When I meant benefit humanity. I meant possible resources we could get to or discoveries that could further our technology in many different ways.

Quote from: TBlocks on July 05, 2016, 10:37:52 AM

Quote from: Pippen on July 05, 2016, 10:28:22 AM

NASA's whole deal is literally "For the benefit of all" That's their motto.
A great deal of things you take for granted in your own home have come because of the advancements made by the people looking to make human life sustainable aboard tin cans in a place where there is literally nothing to breathe. So even if the mission does not directly make your life easier, it's a worthwhile thing to do.

And it isn't NASA's job to make your life easier either. That's just a caveat of their discoveries. Their job is to make humans better and help us survive in outer space. They're not some humanitarian organization.

When I meant benefit humanity. I meant possible resources we could get to or discoveries that could further our technology in many different ways.

So mining an asteroid for minerals or water? That sort of deal?

Discoveries are made sometimes by accident as well.

Metallic hydrogen superconductors yo

But I get what you're saying
That sending a probe to Jupiter isn't going to feed African children
And that's such a short sighted way of looking at things

You forget the tons of indirect effects that the space race had on technology
It's one of the reasons you're not typing this on a two ton brick of a computer right now

Quote from: TBlocks on July 05, 2016, 10:32:30 AM

The reason we're doing it now is because some very smart people decided this would be a worthwhile expedition to make and would advance our knowledge of the universe.

Pip mentioned Venus or Mars, presumably because they're closer and we might be able to go to them at some point. The thing with that is Venus is nearly impossible to study due to the composition of the atmosphere. (We've only gotten a handful of pictures of the surface because of a Russian probe that landed and subsequently burned away in sulfuric rain. It only lasted 30 minutes or so). For Mars, we know plenty about it and as much as we learn about the planet it doesn't really advance our ability to travel there, nor does NASA have the money for such an undertaking. More work has to be done in order to make a Mars Human expedition a reality.

Also 1 billion isn't that much on the scale of space travel. Hell, every space shuttle launch costed around half of that amount and they did over 130 of those!

holy shit a reasonable answer that didn't just say "op you're a retard we could learn about magnets and shit!!!!!!111!!1!1"

Quote from: TBlocks on July 05, 2016, 10:32:30 AM

The reason we're doing it now is because some very smart people decided this would be a worthwhile expedition to make and would advance our knowledge of the universe.

Pip mentioned Venus or Mars, presumably because they're closer and we might be able to go to them at some point. The thing with that is Venus is nearly impossible to study due to the composition of the atmosphere. (We've only gotten a handful of pictures of the surface because of a Russian probe that landed and subsequently burned away in sulfuric rain. It only lasted 30 minutes or so). For Mars, we know plenty about it and as much as we learn about the planet it doesn't really advance our ability to travel there, nor does NASA have the money for such an undertaking. More work has to be done in order to make a Mars Human expedition a reality.

Also 1 billion isn't that much on the scale of space travel. Hell, every space shuttle launch costed around half of that amount and they did over 130 of those!

^^ this is what I was looking for.

Thank you for explaining something that actually got the point I was looking for and countering my points.

Either both of you are high, or you're a bunch of ignoramuses. Tblocks explained basic sense, and common knowledge. He didn't bring anything to the table, and yet you guys are acting like it's exciting news.

The reason why we all were so frustrated and called you two retards is because this shit that you two embraced so hard is shit everyone who remotely cares knows.

Venus has extreme temperatures. It's not habitable by our current technology. Mars can be habitable, but it requires a lot of time, and resources. It's also not worth it with the technology we have. Once we're able to transport lot of people we might consider it.

Did I miss anything? I mean come on, that's embarrassing. I assumed you knew the deal with Venus since you mentioned it, but this is just ridiculous. Use your heads

Desty, I was asking for someone to give me a good, practical reason and explanation for the money being put into Juno and Jupiter. Instead of other planets closer to us. What could humanity benefit from it?

You all didn't get the point of that. TBlocks was the only one(and Inglorious kinda) who got the idea. No i'm not the all knowing god of space, that was the point.

If you can't figure that out, then you're the one that has to "Get Educated".

And the water was an example. Not a definite thing Desty.

Actually, maybe humanity will gain a lot from what Pip says. Let's all be pragmatic and use our heads. If we removed all sports then the money can go into local economies, and the footballers would get jobs that will have to benefit humanity. The militaries would be removed since all countries on Earth would work towards being pragmatic, and that means peace on Earth. Places that aren't contributing much would get bombed, and developing countries would be taken over by people who know what they're doing. All kinds of entertainment would be removed because it isn't pragmatic, and doesn't directly help humans.

We will only focus on keeping a sustainable life on planet Earth, so we'll remove lawyers and just have like 10 rules. We will make sure everyone has food, and water, and then we'll remove cars, because trains and busses will now be the main mode of transportation since it's eco friendly. Factories that make candies and other such bad food will be shut down.

Then once we've achieved Utopia will we do space exploration because if we find other places we can live on we're being pragmatical. Yes, the only question is how the fuck is this gonna happen.

Quote from: TBlocks on July 05, 2016, 10:32:30 AM

The reason we're doing it now is because some very smart people decided this would be a worthwhile expedition to make and would advance our knowledge of the universe.

Pip mentioned Venus or Mars, presumably because they're closer and we might be able to go to them at some point. The thing with that is Venus is nearly impossible to study due to the composition of the atmosphere. (We've only gotten a handful of pictures of the surface because of a Russian probe that landed and subsequently burned away in sulfuric rain. It only lasted 30 minutes or so). For Mars, we know plenty about it and as much as we learn about the planet it doesn't really advance our ability to travel there, nor does NASA have the money for such an undertaking. More work has to be done in order to make a Mars Human expedition a reality.

Also 1 billion isn't that much on the scale of space travel. Hell, every space shuttle launch costed around half of that amount and they did over 130 of those!

^^ this is what I was looking for.

Thank you for explaining something that actually got the point I was looking for and countering my points.

But he didn't even answer your question?

Quote from: Pippen on July 05, 2016, 10:35:59 AM

Quote from: TBlocks on July 05, 2016, 10:32:30 AM

The reason we're doing it now is because some very smart people decided this would be a worthwhile expedition to make and would advance our knowledge of the universe.

Pip mentioned Venus or Mars, presumably because they're closer and we might be able to go to them at some point. The thing with that is Venus is nearly impossible to study due to the composition of the atmosphere. (We've only gotten a handful of pictures of the surface because of a Russian probe that landed and subsequently burned away in sulfuric rain. It only lasted 30 minutes or so). For Mars, we know plenty about it and as much as we learn about the planet it doesn't really advance our ability to travel there, nor does NASA have the money for such an undertaking. More work has to be done in order to make a Mars Human expedition a reality.

Also 1 billion isn't that much on the scale of space travel. Hell, every space shuttle launch costed around half of that amount and they did over 130 of those!

^^ this is what I was looking for.

Thank you for explaining something that actually got the point I was looking for and countering my points.

But he didn't even answer your question?

But he did

If you can study the composition of a gas giant, you might learn something about what could be on it or around it.  We study one of Saturn's moons so closely solely because it has water, which leads scientists to believe that there's life.  It's not about traveling there, it's about attempting to further or solidify our understanding of the universe.

Quote from: Desty on July 05, 2016, 08:48:36 AM

Oh, I'm sorry for asking such a stupid question world leader, please forgive me. Everything you say is truth, even if it were not so before you said it. Thank you for existing and making such wise decisions and judgement on behalf of all humanity. Truly, we would be lost without your expertise.

Completely unwarranted levels of aggression from you ITT.  Tone it down, champ.

No, it was pointing out how he's arbitrarily choosing what's important and what isn't. He's a dumbass that thinks he's hot shit.

Quote from: The Lord Ruler on July 05, 2016, 11:37:21 AM

Quote from: Pippen on July 05, 2016, 10:35:59 AM

Quote from: TBlocks on July 05, 2016, 10:32:30 AM

The reason we're doing it now is because some very smart people decided this would be a worthwhile expedition to make and would advance our knowledge of the universe.

Pip mentioned Venus or Mars, presumably because they're closer and we might be able to go to them at some point. The thing with that is Venus is nearly impossible to study due to the composition of the atmosphere. (We've only gotten a handful of pictures of the surface because of a Russian probe that landed and subsequently burned away in sulfuric rain. It only lasted 30 minutes or so). For Mars, we know plenty about it and as much as we learn about the planet it doesn't really advance our ability to travel there, nor does NASA have the money for such an undertaking. More work has to be done in order to make a Mars Human expedition a reality.

Also 1 billion isn't that much on the scale of space travel. Hell, every space shuttle launch costed around half of that amount and they did over 130 of those!

^^ this is what I was looking for.

Thank you for explaining something that actually got the point I was looking for and countering my points.

But he didn't even answer your question?

But he did

So what doesJuno orbiting Jupiter help us with atm?

Where does he answer this?

OP, you get that space exploration is kind of like a web, not a line, right? Many projects are worked on simultaneously alongside other r&d.