Ozymandius is not a villain

Ian · April 10, 2017, 02:28:26 PM

Please stop calling him the bad guy. He did the wrong things for the right reasons and his actions were far better than any other possible outcomes for humanity, all of them involving a nuclear-winter Hell for the entire human race. Moral absolutist Rorschach was a fucking idiot and would purposefully let billions of people die to a nuclear war because "Hurr it's better than lying!"

(((Fun_Timer))) · April 10, 2017, 02:29:17 PM

Ditto for Griffith tho.

Doctor Doom · April 10, 2017, 03:12:04 PM

It's left ambiguous if he was right or not. He doubts himself shortly after, and Dr. Manhattan implies he wasn't.

Unrelated but still interesting, Alan Moore was annoyed when he found out how popular Rorschach became. Seems some people missed the point completely.

Mordo · April 10, 2017, 03:27:03 PM

>killing millions using a tenuous scapegoat that somehow magically tricks the USSR and Amerigoys into a buttbro romance

The retarded premise alone absolves him of any villainy.

Deleted · April 10, 2017, 03:37:21 PM

Quote from: Epsira Idari on April 10, 2017, 02:29:17 PM

Ditto for Griffith tho.

LOLNO Even if you don't count Femto as Griffith, He still literaly sold his comrafes to Hell when Rickert was coming back to heal him anyway.

Onion · April 10, 2017, 04:15:46 PM

blake did nothing wrong

Azumarill · April 10, 2017, 04:16:27 PM

"without condoning, or condemning. i understand."

Elai · April 10, 2017, 05:31:58 PM

He's not a good guy, but the real villian of Watchmen is Rorschach. If Ozymandias is batman enough to kill a bunch of people and actually bring about peace, at least make use of the sacrifice and go along with it. Rorshach basically makes those innocents' sacrifice wasted.

Korra · April 10, 2017, 05:47:09 PM

The path to hell was paved with good intentions...

Risay117 · April 10, 2017, 06:42:52 PM

Honestly I don't see the movie to be about bad guys or villains, but clash of philosophies.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

Doctor Doom · April 10, 2017, 06:55:49 PM

Quote from: Risay117 on April 10, 2017, 06:42:52 PM

Honestly I don't see the movie to be about bad guys or villains, but clash of philosophies.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

This. Watchmen is a commentary on the simplistic morality of the Silver Age, where there's good and bad and nothing in between, by presenting a morally gray situation with no clear right or wrong. Trying to finger any one character as the villain is missing the point.

>the movie though

Korra · April 10, 2017, 06:57:09 PM

Quote from: Doctor Doom on April 10, 2017, 06:55:49 PM

Quote from: Risay117 on April 10, 2017, 06:42:52 PM
Honestly I don't see the movie to be about bad guys or villains, but clash of philosophies.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

This. Watchmen is a commentary on the simplistic morality of the Silver Age, where there's good and bad and nothing in between, by presenting a morally gray situation with no clear right or wrong. Trying to finger any one character as the villain is missing the point.

>the movie though

the movie was ok

Doctor Doom · April 10, 2017, 06:58:55 PM

Quote from: Yang on April 10, 2017, 06:57:09 PM

Quote from: Doctor Doom on April 10, 2017, 06:55:49 PM
Quote from: Risay117 on April 10, 2017, 06:42:52 PM
Honestly I don't see the movie to be about bad guys or villains, but clash of philosophies.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

This. Watchmen is a commentary on the simplistic morality of the Silver Age, where there's good and bad and nothing in between, by presenting a morally gray situation with no clear right or wrong. Trying to finger any one character as the villain is missing the point.

>the movie though
the movie was ok

Doesn't measure up to the comic though.

Korra · April 10, 2017, 07:00:01 PM

Quote from: Doctor Doom on April 10, 2017, 06:58:55 PM

Quote from: Yang on April 10, 2017, 06:57:09 PM
Quote from: Doctor Doom on April 10, 2017, 06:55:49 PM
Quote from: Risay117 on April 10, 2017, 06:42:52 PM
Honestly I don't see the movie to be about bad guys or villains, but clash of philosophies.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk

This. Watchmen is a commentary on the simplistic morality of the Silver Age, where there's good and bad and nothing in between, by presenting a morally gray situation with no clear right or wrong. Trying to finger any one character as the villain is missing the point.

>the movie though
the movie was ok

Doesn't measure up to the comic though.

Never said it did.

MyNameIsCharlie · April 10, 2017, 08:46:44 PM

I agree. Millions vs billions. The math on this is clear

Dietrich Six · April 11, 2017, 11:42:27 AM

I always picture verb as Rorschach. Absolutists are fucking autistic.

Verbatim · April 11, 2017, 11:57:44 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on April 11, 2017, 11:42:27 AM

I always picture verb as Rorschach. Absolutists are fucking autistic.

i see pieces of myself in all the characters, tbqh (that's why i love it so much)

except for the comedian

Verbatim · April 11, 2017, 12:00:02 PM

i can understand rorschach's perspective, but whereas he's an absolutist, i'm more of a universalist

Ingy · April 11, 2017, 12:01:35 PM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on April 10, 2017, 08:46:44 PM

I agree. Millions vs billions. The math on this is clear

Fuck this logic

Scarecrow · April 11, 2017, 12:20:52 PM

I think they were trying to set up a utilitarianism vs kantianism sort of thing where there is no objective right solution, but the utilitarian route is clearly the better one in this case.

MyNameIsCharlie · April 11, 2017, 01:12:11 PM

Quote from: Reversible Love on April 11, 2017, 12:01:35 PM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on April 10, 2017, 08:46:44 PM
I agree. Millions vs billions. The math on this is clear

Fuck this logic

Look at it from his perspective. The people of the world put themselves in the situation. Neither would budge on their political beliefs. That refusal meant everything would die. He was touted as the smartest man alive and saw no other option than to force everyone to play nice and retain their free will.

Now, what I didn't get was why Manhattan didn't disappear all the nukes before they launched. He had that kind of power.

Dietrich Six · April 11, 2017, 01:23:43 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 11, 2017, 11:57:44 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on April 11, 2017, 11:42:27 AM
I always picture verb as Rorschach. Absolutists are fucking autistic.
i see pieces of myself in all the characters, tbqh (that's why i love it so much)

except for the comedian

That's funny because I see a lot of myself in the comedian.

Doctor Doom · April 11, 2017, 01:35:20 PM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on April 11, 2017, 01:12:11 PM

Quote from: Reversible Love on April 11, 2017, 12:01:35 PM
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on April 10, 2017, 08:46:44 PM
I agree. Millions vs billions. The math on this is clear

Fuck this logic

Look at it from his perspective. The people of the world put themselves in the situation. Neither would budge on their political beliefs. That refusal meant everything would die. He was touted as the smartest man alive and saw no other option than to force everyone to play nice and retain their free will.

Now, what I didn't get was why Manhattan didn't disappear all the nukes before they launched. He had that kind of power.

Manhattan sees the past and future as if they're happening now. He's bound to do whatever he sees himself do in the future because, from his perspective, it's already happened. He pretty much went "I won't get rid of the nukes because I know I didn't get rid of the nukes."

And keep in mind that there's no guarantee Veidt's plan worked or if nuclear war happened anyway. Since Rorschach's journal wound up published (and it's consistent with Ozymandias' code name), I'm inclined to go with the latter, but that's just me.

Ingy · April 11, 2017, 02:39:18 PM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on April 11, 2017, 01:12:11 PM

Quote from: Reversible Love on April 11, 2017, 12:01:35 PM
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on April 10, 2017, 08:46:44 PM
I agree. Millions vs billions. The math on this is clear

Fuck this logic

Look at it from his perspective. The people of the world put themselves in the situation. Neither would budge on their political beliefs. That refusal meant everything would die. He was touted as the smartest man alive and saw no other option than to force everyone to play nice and retain their free will.

Now, what I didn't get was why Manhattan didn't disappear all the nukes before they launched. He had that kind of power.

He doesn't get to make that decision for them
The problem with "the ends justify the means" is that it means you're willing to do whatever it takes to your end, even if it kills your humanity

Manhattan is a hypocrite
"Without condoning or condemning, I understand"
Except for you Rorschach, I'll condemn you

Rorschach knew there was nothing he could do and he still died to defend his morals which made him the only one who was right in the whole thing