Spoiler Okay so an obvious BvS question that deserves its own thread.

How are we going to mend the current state of the universe?

Bruce's visions are bound to come true, to the point that the Flash was trying to reach back in time to have him fix it.

One reviewer I read was being critical of Bruce's reasoning for assembling the other Metahumans at the end of the film.

"Just a feeling."

They were raving about how nonsensical this was, because they failed to identify that the Knightmare sequence was  the world's most blatant foreshadowing.

Seriously, they're hitting you over the head with it.

Do you think the universe will progress to that point, or will the Flash successfully return to save Lois from whatever fate awaits her and prevent Superman from becoming an warlord in a storyline that pays homage to Injustice?

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well based off that sequence it's pretty much given that Darkseid is gonna be the big bad for the JL. what i'm wondering is how Luthor and the suicide squad will play into all of this

with deleted scenes and directors cuts apparently

YouTube

^ official deleted scene just released by WB

Justice League Part 1 will "fulfill the prophecy" that was told in BvS with the Knightmare sequence, Justice League Part 2 will deal with "fixing" it.

That's the only way I can see it happening.

with deleted scenes and directors cuts apparently

YouTube

^ official deleted scene just released by WB

Holy fuck.

Is... is that supposed to be Darkseid?

Justice League Part 1 will "fulfill the prophecy" that was told in BvS with the Knightmare sequence, Justice League Part 2 will deal with "fixing" it.

That's the only way I can see it happening.

with deleted scenes and directors cuts apparently

YouTube

^ official deleted scene just released by WB

Holy fuck.

Is... is that supposed to be Darkseid?

no it looks more like his father yuga khan or steppenwolf (steppenwolf only looks like that sometimes). its probably an image created by the kryptonian ship

Its probably an image created by the kryptonian ship

What do you mean?

Its probably an image created by the kryptonian ship

What do you mean?

lex was chillin out with the computer and he told it to teach him. it looks like the ship created an image of steppenwolf or yuga khan while teaching lex about apokolips and darkseid. that would probably explain why he's so off the rails at the end of the film. steppenwolf is the leader of darkseid's military so it makes sense that he'd be the one the ship shows first; he'd lead the parademons in the knightmare scene to earth and be the first member of darkseid's elite that the justice league encounters

If it's Yuga Khan or Steppenwolf, maybe we should be giving the execs. at WB more credit. Clearly they're doing something a lot less conventional than we thought.

lex was chillin out with the computer and he told it to teach him. it looks like the ship created an image of steppenwolf or yuga khan while teaching lex about apokolips and darkseid. that would probably explain why he's so off the rails at the end of the film.

Well I mean, it's quite obvious that the image of... whoever that is was created by the ship, so I thought you might've meant something else.

I'm not in a position to disagree with you regarding his craziness at the end of the movie.

If it's Yuga Khan or Steppenwolf, maybe we should be giving the execs. at WB more credit. Clearly they're doing something a lot less conventional than we thought.

i think it was still a stupid decision to exclude this scene from the film and im willing to bet there are more scenes in the directors cut that fill in some more gaps. looks like some last minute studio meddling happened.

I think it was still a stupid decision to exclude this scene from the film and I'm willing to bet there are more scenes in the directors cut that fill in some more gaps. Looks like some last minute studio meddling happened.

Agreed. Not sure why the execs. thought the Pa Kent scene on top of a mountain was worth keeping but this wasn't.

Steppenwolf Cameo in 'Batman V Superman' Fixes Major Lex Luthor Plothole

Though its theatrical cut is a very lengthy two-and-a-half hours, "Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice,” Zack Snyder’s super-long sequel/prequel to other DC superhero movies has a whole thirty or so minutes of deleted scenes that will be included in an extended R-rated cut on Blu-ray and DVD. Among the deleted scenes is one titled “Communion,” which features none other than Steppenwolf, one of Darkseid’s generals who leads an invasion against Earth. Had his presence been in the final film, it actually would have solved one of the film’s most glaring plot holes.

“Communion” presumably follows the climax of Superman (Henry Cavill), Batman (Ben Affleck), and Wonder Woman (Gal Gadot) defeating Doomsday. After that battle, the military enters the Kryptonian ship crash site in Metropolis, where Lex Luthor (Jesse Eisenberg) turned Zod into Doomsday. That’s when Steppenwolf, who looks like his most recent comic book iteration, makes his cameo… which consists of him just standing around before soon disappearing.

Had the scene been in the film, it would have fixed one of the movie’s biggest plot holes: How does Lex Luthor learn about Darkseid, whom he mutters about in the final prison scene?

Darkseid is the cosmic warlord of the DCU, who will be the villain in Zack Snyder’s upcoming Justice League — Part 1 and most likely Part 2.

At the end of Dawn of Justice, immediately after the Doomsday fight, Lex Luthor is confronted by Batman and goes on and on about humanity ringing the bell “for him” and that he has awakened? It made no sense because there was no context or setup. Well, “Communion” is that set-up, which not only explains how Luthor gets arrested but also how Luthor learns about Darkseid and his apocalypse. Which Bruce also knows is, to his dismay, absolutely true, and that’s why he and Wonder Woman assembling the Justice League.

This reveal might actually mean JL Part 1 = defeating Steppenwolf, and JL Part 2 = defeating Darkseid.

Not sure how evil Superman fits into all of this, though.

This reveal might actually mean JL Part 1 = defeating Steppenwolf, and JL Part 2 = defeating Darkseid.

Not sure how evil Superman fits into all of this, though.

I'm concerned about that too.

Here you go, folks. HQ gif.

Curious as to how they're going to fit Darkseid into this if they're doing the whole Injustice set up for the future.

I really hope they don't do the latter tbh. Injustice is great as an offworld storyline of "what if Superman snapped" kind of introspective on the universe. It's neat, but it doesn't deserve to be in the DCCU if they're doing Justice League, and I don't want Superman to be used as a dumb plot device for ebin Batman fights.

Wait, did people actually not like Ben Affleck as Batman?

Wait, did people actually not like Ben Affleck as Batman?

The complaints I usually see are that he was more ruthless & actively killed, to the point where he's worse than TDKR Batman. The only Batmen who kill more indiscriminately than Batfleck are Thomas Wayne and Kirk Langstrom in Gods & Monsters afaik. I don't have a problem with it as long as they reign him back in after the events of BvS. My problem with Ben was that Bruce wasn't great. When Mercy caught him at Lex's party he had such a half assed excuse, really Bruce, you're looking for the bathroom? Bruce Wayne should have something much better prepared for a moment like that. That's technically a fault of the script but Ben Affleck is a savvy enough guy I figure he should have ad libbed a better excuse. But overall Ben is good. His look was damn near perfect for a TDKR inspired Batman. He's a fucking tank, his suits are great, and the voice modulator foils Christian Bale's gravelly voice perfectly.

The complaints I usually see are that he was more ruthless & actively killed, to the point where he's worse than TDKR Batman. The only Batmen who kill more indiscriminately than Batfleck are Thomas Wayne and Kirk Langstrom in Gods & Monsters afaik.

Damian Wayne, too. But I get what you're saying.

I don't have a problem with it as long as they reign him back in after the events of BvS.

I only have a problem with him using guns -- once you open up that can of worms, it's like, why wouldn't he bring a pistol into every situation he gets into? He's neutering himself by NOT bringing a weapon. In the comics, he's hoplophobic, so it makes sense. Here, he has no reservations about using guns.

The brutality and killing I don't really mind, like you.

My problem with Ben was that Bruce wasn't great. When Mercy caught him at Lex's party he had such a half assed excuse, really Bruce, you're looking for the bathroom?

How is this Ben's fault, though? He doesn't write the lines, he just delivers them. I thought his Bruce Wayne was solid enough. We didn't get much, but what we got was alright. You can see the difference in personality from "Wow, pretty girl, bad habit, don't quote me." to "I guess it's just the Gotham City in me... we have a bad history with freaks dressed like clowns." One is "fake" Bruce, the facade, and the other is the real Bruce; Batman. Bale did this pretty well, too.

But overall Ben is good. His look was damn near perfect for a TDKR inspired Batman. He's a fucking tank, his suits are great, and the voice modulator foils Christian Bale's gravelly voice perfectly.

Yeah. The visuals, save for Doomsday, are top-notch in this DCCU.

I'd like to remind everyone that Michael Keaton killed pretty much everybody he fought.

He blew them up and lit them on fire with rockets and threw them off of tall buildings, or he ran them over with his car.

I like that they didn't use the watered down Wonder Woman who only uses her lasso of truth, she's best as a warrior who's not afraid to cut her opponents down, and I guarantee that after Superman drove that African warlord through a concrete wall he did not survive.

In all this is a Justice League who is willing to kill their enemies, though I have strong suspicion that the Flash will have qualms with it.

I'd like to remind everyone that Michael Keaton killed pretty much everybody he fought.

He blew them up and lit them on fire with rockets and threw them off of tall buildings, or he ran them over with his car.

I like that they didn't use the watered down Wonder Woman who only uses her lasso of truth, she's best as a warrior who's not afraid to cut her opponents down, and I guarantee that after Superman drove that African warlord through a concrete wall he did not survive.

In all this is a Justice League who is willing to kill their enemies, though I have strong suspicion that the Flash will have qualms with it.

I was hoping that, after the events of Man of Steel, Superman would have more aversion for killing. Him killing Zod would sort of explain why he's so hesitant to take a life: he knows the cost. Would have dried a few tears in the Superman community, I'm sure.

Other than that, Wonder Woman has never had any qualms with taking a life and I've already explained my thoughts on Bats' philosophy. Cyborg will likely be useless and only relevant as far as plot progression is concerned, so I don't see him taking many lives. Aquaman will be ruthless.

Out of the confirmed members of the JL, yeah, I can see the Flash having a problem with killing. He's the idealist on the team, hopefull.

I didn't really mind the whole "Batman killing" theme throughout the movie. Batman's design and creation in BvS drew heavy inspiration from Dark Knight Returns written by Frank Miller, who, if you know his work, is fairly lenient when it comes to Batman's code of ethics.

The "no killing" thing has never been completely arbitrary within Batman storylines. It was cherry picked by myriad different writers to suit the narratives they wanted to create. Nolan used this, galvanized the character to legendary status, and now everyone thinks Batman doesn't kill when that's demonstrably not true depending on the storyline you're talking about.

Nolan used this, galvanized the character to legendary status, and now everyone thinks Batman doesn't kill when that's demonstrably not true depending on the storyline you're talking about.

What's funny is that Nolan's Batman kills people, too. Ra's was left to die.

But yeah, my problem isn't the killing with Bats, it's the guns.

Nolan used this, galvanized the character to legendary status, and now everyone thinks Batman doesn't kill when that's demonstrably not true depending on the storyline you're talking about.

What's funny is that Nolan's Batman kills people, too. Ra's was left to die.

But yeah, my problem isn't the killing with Bats, it's the guns.

Didn't Nolan kind of set up that scene as a sort of moral grey zone for the viewers to decide?

I mean, he literally says "I'm not going to kill you, but I'm not going to save you either."

Doesn't exactly scream black and white murder to me.

I mean, he literally says "I'm not going to kill you, but I'm not going to save you either."

Doesn't exactly scream black and white murder to me.

Not saving someone you can easily save someone is killing them. C'mon, we've seen Batman go to great lengths to save the Joker before -- even in the Nolanverse.

I mean, he literally says "I'm not going to kill you, but I'm not going to save you either."

Doesn't exactly scream black and white murder to me.

Not saving someone you can easily save someone is killing them. C'mon, we've seen Batman go to great lengths to save the Joker before -- even in the Nolanverse.

There's killing someone and then there's deliberately refusing to help someone. It's pretty mutually exclusive.

There's killing someone and then there's deliberately refusing to help someone. It's pretty mutually exclusive.

So why wouldn't Batman leave the Joker to die by falling off the building in TDK?

If it's so black and white, and he's refused to save his enemies in the past, why save his worst enemy?

What's funny is that Nolan's Batman kills people, too. Ra's was left to die.

I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you

There's killing someone and then there's deliberately refusing to help someone. It's pretty mutually exclusive.

So why wouldn't Batman leave the Joker to die by falling off the building in TDK?

Who knows. Shitty writing maybe.