Spoiler Okay so the penguin is the real antangonist

September 14, 2020, 01:49:53 PM

this series is getting incredible honestly

sometimes i dont know whats going on but by the end of the episode i usually do

I love the random "that's an angel" though, pretty sure they used that line like 3 times

and then theres this totally spies shit happening with Kaji where he's a double agent or something

But really I would appreciate someone telling me the story up until episode 20

Verbatim · September 14, 2020, 01:55:29 PM

any specific things you're confused about?

otherwise, there's a lot of ground to cover, and a good number of things to hold my tongue about

Assassin 11D7 · September 14, 2020, 01:56:47 PM

everything is tang

September 14, 2020, 02:14:44 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on September 14, 2020, 01:55:29 PM

any specific things you're confused about?

otherwise, there's a lot of ground to cover, and a good number of things to hold my tongue about

I remember a scene where Misato implied that she was just using Shinji to pilot the EVAs and didn't really care about him, idk if i dreamed that or what but it feels important because she's so concerned about his safety at this point in the story

I'm slowly warming up to Asuka, she's just loud and annoying -- I think the best thing they've done was the whole shadow creature incident

I also like to see how NERV operates in the world

Coomer · September 14, 2020, 03:45:47 PM

The fate of the world depending on kids and they can't afford a therapist

Verbatim · September 14, 2020, 04:28:20 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 14, 2020, 02:14:44 PM

I remember a scene where Misato implied that she was just using Shinji to pilot the EVAs and didn't really care about him, idk if i dreamed that or what but it feels important because she's so concerned about his safety at this point in the story

nah, misato always cared about shinji—she wouldn't have offered to be his guardian if that weren't the case

this may not have come across directly, just because one of the show's biggest themes involves how difficult it is for some people to communicate or connect with each other in a way that won't inevitably cause hurt for both parties (the hedgehog's dilemma)

you might be thinking of the scene in episode 4, where misato told shinji to quit and leave if he hates being an EVA pilot so much—which may have seemed cold, but it did come from a place of genuine concern for his well-being, as well as from the misunderstanding that shinji has no interest in helping NERV's cause

misato takes NO pleasure in the "psychological torture of 14-year-olds" portion of her job description; she's not about to force any kid to be an EVA pilot if they aren't willing, and she can only encourage them so much before her patience wears thin—this, coupled with a perceived lack of cooperation on shinji's part, caused her to hastily shut him out out of frustration

she later comes to understand that shinji does want to help, and that he's just scared and demotivated—likewise, shinji comes to understand that misato has in fact provided him with the exact kind of warmth, company, and guidance that his parents failed to provide for him all his life, and that he's ultimately making a mistake by leaving NERV

neither of the two were right or wrong for their actions, or for their reactions to each other's actions—it was just a matter of two clashing personalities failing to communicate with each other before they eventually clicked

unless you were thinking of a different episode, of course, but i can't think of another instance where misato seemed like she didn't care about shinji—she even slaps ritsuko in the face for having that attitude

Coomer · September 14, 2020, 05:11:25 PM

Misato just wanted that dick

Ian · September 14, 2020, 05:21:19 PM

Boys argue over Rei vs. Asuka, but men understand that Misato is the true patrician choice.

Quote from: Coomer on September 14, 2020, 05:11:25 PM

Misato just wanted that dick

September 14, 2020, 06:52:58 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on September 14, 2020, 04:28:20 PM

Thank you for this post, it clarified a lot. This anime has a tone that syncs well with me.

I'm going to try to call it though, the EVAs are angels themselves

I think that's a fair foresight but we'll see how it goes

September 14, 2020, 06:58:24 PM

Quote from: Ian on September 14, 2020, 05:21:19 PM

Boys argue over Rei vs. Asuka, but men understand that Misato is the true patrician choice.

Quote from: Coomer on September 14, 2020, 05:11:25 PM
Misato just wanted that dick

misato is amazing and I fail to see why she's not literally everyone's favorite

she's like the stand out character of this show

Jet Wave · September 15, 2020, 05:25:36 AM

So we're just gonna put that spoiler right in the title?

September 15, 2020, 08:47:43 AM

Holy fucking shit, episode 21 with Asuka is probably the single greatest episode of the show so far. They redeemed her character in a single episode. I can't believe that Kaji died though, what a rip-off. He was becoming like my favorite character.

So yeah I'm glad that I waited until I sobered up to watch the last of these. I legit thought Seele was a person for the longest time lmao. I liked how they used "Hallelujah" in this episode, at first I laughed but then as it progressed it made a lot of sense for the episode.

Also I think it's implied that Rei/Shinji are brother and sister because of when Ritsuko's mom said that Rei looked like Yui

My only question is what tf is up with this spear? Comes out of nowhere and I guess it's the only thing holding Adam (the first angel - but also what the EVAs are based on ?) into his cage thing. I still don't get why/how Adam caused the second impact but maybe we'll see more later

September 15, 2020, 08:48:36 AM

Quote from: Jet Wave on September 15, 2020, 05:25:36 AM

So we're just gonna put that spoiler right in the title?

okay changed

Verbatim · September 15, 2020, 09:38:47 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 15, 2020, 08:47:43 AM

Holy fucking shit, episode 21 with Asuka is probably the single greatest episode of the show so far. They redeemed her character in a single episode. I can't believe that Kaji died though, what a rip-off. He was becoming like my favorite character.

🤔 you must mean 22, because asuka wasn't in episode 21 at all

September 15, 2020, 09:44:23 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on September 15, 2020, 09:38:47 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 15, 2020, 08:47:43 AM
Holy fucking shit, episode 21 with Asuka is probably the single greatest episode of the show so far. They redeemed her character in a single episode. I can't believe that Kaji died though, what a rip-off. He was becoming like my favorite character.
🤔 you must mean 22, because asuka wasn't in episode 21 at all

I did mean that but I just watched 23

so pretty much, we found God in Antarctica, we tried to exploit it, it got mad and caused the Second Impact, we made Adam in the form of the God we found, then we made EVAs in the form of Adam? Is Rei an EVA? Why is she being cloned specifically, just so she can be the dummy plug and they'll always have pilots for the EVAs?

Verbatim · September 15, 2020, 09:59:51 AM

yeah, the lance is definitely weird and not explained super well—if you remember the episode that ends with rei carrying the spear to adam, that actually happens two episodes after the spear was actually found in antarctica, which explains why gendo and fuyutsuki were there

basically, when you see adam's fucked up body, you're meant to ascertain that he was in the process of growing/getting stronger, and that the lance was essentially being used to halt that process

Coomer · September 15, 2020, 11:10:49 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 15, 2020, 09:44:23 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on September 15, 2020, 09:38:47 AM
Quote from: SecondClass on September 15, 2020, 08:47:43 AM
Holy fucking shit, episode 21 with Asuka is probably the single greatest episode of the show so far. They redeemed her character in a single episode. I can't believe that Kaji died though, what a rip-off. He was becoming like my favorite character.
🤔 you must mean 22, because asuka wasn't in episode 21 at all
I did mean that but I just watched 23

so pretty much, we found God in Antarctica, we tried to exploit it, it got mad and caused the Second Impact, we made Adam in the form of the God we found, then we made EVAs in the form of Adam? Is Rei an EVA? Why is she being cloned specifically, just so she can be the dummy plug and they'll always have pilots for the EVAs?

Eva shines in terms of character development but don't even try to decipher the plot because it's an unintelligible mess

The movie wraps it up better but it's still pretty garbo

Verbatim · September 15, 2020, 11:14:15 AM

well, the other questions asked do have clear answers that are provided later in the show, which is why i didn't answer them

the stuff that's truly unintelligible without getting into EU stuff isn't really that important anyway

September 15, 2020, 11:22:56 AM

Wow episode 25 could've been so pretentious but ended up really being super insightful. I relate to all four of these characters that they deconstructed. Rei "pretending" to be human but fears that she's fake, Misato using escapism to combat her problems, Shinji only seeing his value as something that pertains to what others can get from him, and of course Asuka's immense self-loathing covered up by a facade of enthusiasm and confidence

All of these characters are different parts of me, and maybe that's a narcissistic thing to say but I so see it. I hope that this Human Instrumentality Project isn't supposed to be presented as a good thing, though. Yes, everyone sees you differently and so the "Carmen inside ChallengerX" is vastly different from the me inside someone else, but that doesn't mean that we should just combine ourselves and try to deny our differences. The show makes a good point that when you shut yourself out, you're making a perfect world for yourself. In my alone time, I'll just do DXM/weed, play Dishonored, and eat all the seasme chicken I can have, but if someone comes around who doesn't like watching me play a video game while high and gorging myself with sugar soaked meat, then it's like do I do what I want to do or open up my world to someone else?

So the show has a good interpretation of how interpersonal stuff works, but just like how living with ONLY yourself and without anyone is bad, living with ONLY others and having no individuality or alone time is also bad. So if this Human Instrumentality Project is meant to bring everyone together, that's such a lazy and cop out way to foster togetherness. It's not worth it. Going into this final episode, I hope it's not presented as a good thing.

September 15, 2020, 11:29:55 AM

maybe I'll earn my "she" badge on this site when this is all said and done, I know Cheat has hers but I pass just as well

Ian · September 15, 2020, 11:46:44 AM

The supplemental material does a good job of explaining everything pretty clearly but as Verb said, that never really mattered anyways. In terms of plot though would you call Gendo/SEELE's conspiracy part of their development though? It's a pretty good juxtaposition against Shinji's character development where we (the audience) and he (Shinji) thinks this is all about him but isn't privy to the massive rails upon rails upon rails upon rails web of conspiracies between all the other side characters (Gendo, SEELE, Fuyutsuki, Kaji, Ritsuko, & Misato) and their constant attempts at trying to circumvent one group only to fall prey to another's master plan.

Quote from: Coomer on September 15, 2020, 11:10:49 AM

Eva shines in terms of character development but don't even try to decipher the plot because it's an unintelligible mess

The movie wraps it up better but it's still pretty garbo

September 15, 2020, 11:52:51 AM

oh my God I got a like from Verbatim and made him edit his comment

this is the best day of my life

Coomer · September 15, 2020, 11:56:02 AM

Quote from: Ian on September 15, 2020, 11:46:44 AM

The supplemental material does a good job of explaining everything pretty clearly but as Verb said, that never really mattered anyways. In terms of plot though would you call Gendo/SEELE's conspiracy part of their development though? It's a pretty good juxtaposition against Shinji's character development where we (the audience) and he (Shinji) thinks this is all about him but isn't privy to the massive rails upon rails upon rails upon rails web of conspiracies between all the other side characters (Gendo, SEELE, Fuyutsuki, Kaji, Ritsuko, & Misato) and their constant attempts at trying to circumvent one group only to fall prey to another's master plan.

Quote from: Coomer on September 15, 2020, 11:10:49 AM
Eva shines in terms of character development but don't even try to decipher the plot because it's an unintelligible mess

The movie wraps it up better but it's still pretty garbo

Eva is certainly character driven but knowing more about the world would have made the movie more entertaining

Spoiler

After everyone died, I didn't really care about the movie anymore
The plot was pretty much lost to me by that point

September 15, 2020, 12:00:35 PM

Quote from: Coomer on September 15, 2020, 11:10:49 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 15, 2020, 09:44:23 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on September 15, 2020, 09:38:47 AM
Quote from: SecondClass on September 15, 2020, 08:47:43 AM
Holy fucking shit, episode 21 with Asuka is probably the single greatest episode of the show so far. They redeemed her character in a single episode. I can't believe that Kaji died though, what a rip-off. He was becoming like my favorite character.
🤔 you must mean 22, because asuka wasn't in episode 21 at all
I did mean that but I just watched 23

so pretty much, we found God in Antarctica, we tried to exploit it, it got mad and caused the Second Impact, we made Adam in the form of the God we found, then we made EVAs in the form of Adam? Is Rei an EVA? Why is she being cloned specifically, just so she can be the dummy plug and they'll always have pilots for the EVAs?

Eva shines in terms of character development but don't even try to decipher the plot because it's an unintelligible mess

The movie wraps it up better but it's still pretty garbo

Yeah I realized a while ago that the plot is secondary to the characters in it, and I'm fine with that

The theme is 1000% "loneliness" but okay, even if this anime did make me reflect on my own life - I'm not a meat person I'm a butter person. I want the cool plot twists and plot developments and all that at the end of the day. I do appreciate that these characters are taken seriously, and I think the world and show is better because these feel like real characters. Yes, for sure, but I also want a story that makes sense and keeps me excited for the next development. This story has done that for me consistently, and with the movies and such out there I'd rather not have the story put to the wayside (and it hasn't been as far as I can tell). While having relateable characters makes the story timeless itself, I also want a nice story.

I really just want a clear elaboration on Gendo's motivations (Seele interprets them as him wanting to be a God himself which is an okay explanation) and I want a fuller elaboration on the whole Antarctica/Adam thing, but if I don't get either I won't be too disappointed

Coomer · September 15, 2020, 12:29:56 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 15, 2020, 12:00:35 PM

Quote from: Coomer on September 15, 2020, 11:10:49 AM
Quote from: SecondClass on September 15, 2020, 09:44:23 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on September 15, 2020, 09:38:47 AM
Quote from: SecondClass on September 15, 2020, 08:47:43 AM
Holy fucking shit, episode 21 with Asuka is probably the single greatest episode of the show so far. They redeemed her character in a single episode. I can't believe that Kaji died though, what a rip-off. He was becoming like my favorite character.
🤔 you must mean 22, because asuka wasn't in episode 21 at all
I did mean that but I just watched 23

so pretty much, we found God in Antarctica, we tried to exploit it, it got mad and caused the Second Impact, we made Adam in the form of the God we found, then we made EVAs in the form of Adam? Is Rei an EVA? Why is she being cloned specifically, just so she can be the dummy plug and they'll always have pilots for the EVAs?

Eva shines in terms of character development but don't even try to decipher the plot because it's an unintelligible mess

The movie wraps it up better but it's still pretty garbo
Yeah I realized a while ago that the plot is secondary to the characters in it, and I'm fine with that

The theme is 1000% "loneliness" but okay, even if this anime did make me reflect on my own life - I'm not a meat person I'm a butter person. I want the cool plot twists and plot developments and all that at the end of the day. I do appreciate that these characters are taken seriously, and I think the world and show is better because these feel like real characters. Yes, for sure, but I also want a story that makes sense and keeps me excited for the next development. This story has done that for me consistently, and with the movies and such out there I'd rather not have the story put to the wayside (and it hasn't been as far as I can tell). While having relateable characters makes the story timeless itself, I also want a nice story.

I really just want a clear elaboration on Gendo's motivations (Seele interprets them as him wanting to be a God himself which is an okay explanation) and I want a fuller elaboration on the whole Antarctica/Adam thing, but if I don't get either I won't be too disappointed

Gendo's motivation gets wrapped up pretty well. I don't remember if it's mostly in the movie or the series but it has to do with his wife and it has a satisfying end. As for Antarctica, that was the second impact and it was caused by Adam combining with Lilthe? I don't remember but they basically kept the thing that caused the second impact in the basement of Nerv and Gendo intends to use it for his own purposes

Ian · September 15, 2020, 02:17:41 PM

Spoilers for others who may not be far into the show if they're watching it but should be safe for Class and everyone else.

Spoiler

Adam, the first angel and progenitor of all other angels except for Lilith and [Redacted] was found frozen by the Katsuragi team with the Lance of Longinus impaling him, leaving him in suspended animation. Upon foolishly removing the spear, Adam awakens and begins to completely destroy humanity and spread his seed (the other angels) around the world. The Katsuragi team use the Lance against Adam to lessen the damage and it reverts Adam back into an embryonic state.

Lilith was always in the Geofront and her Spear was destroyed when she came to Earth.

Quote from: Coomer on September 15, 2020, 12:29:56 PM

As for Antarctica, that was the second impact and it was caused by Adam combining with Lilith?

DAS B00T x2 · September 15, 2020, 06:26:43 PM

It don't matter

none of this matters

September 15, 2020, 08:37:04 PM

okay I have the biggest crush on this man tho

literally Jim from the Office if he was a secret agent and likable