Is it bad that I agree with this racist apologist?

November 15, 2018, 05:05:45 AM

violence isnt the answer to any ideology

November 15, 2018, 05:18:20 AM

Also I'm not a centrist, the middle ground isn't always right

But I don't see advocating against violence of any kind against non-violent offenders to be the middle ground. It's just not as extreme as "kill everyone with a dangerous opinion"

Desty · November 15, 2018, 06:05:12 AM

The only use for violence is to feel good, or getting what you want. Ultimately it's selfish, but it's taking action, whereas only having an ideology is selfish with no action. An ideology without action is complacency. It's not worth having if you truly care about things and other people. Ideologies without actions are just feel-good philosophies that you can follow because they're logical since they're not ever put to the test.

Solonoid · November 15, 2018, 07:34:45 AM

but racism is tight

big dog · November 15, 2018, 07:40:26 AM

It's always good to punch alt rightists.

Aether · November 15, 2018, 12:04:10 PM

How is dude being an apologist? He was clearly saying that racism is bad.

Violence against ideas is authoritarian, even if those ideas themselves are authoritarian. You don't fight authoritarianism with more authoritarianism.

Verbatim · November 15, 2018, 12:05:36 PM

Quote from: Aether on November 15, 2018, 12:04:10 PM

Violence against ideas is authoritarian

could just be cathartic

Aether · November 15, 2018, 12:24:42 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on November 15, 2018, 12:05:36 PM

Quote from: Aether on November 15, 2018, 12:04:10 PM
Violence against ideas is authoritarian
could just be cathartic

A lot of it is probably very cathartic for people, but it's still essentially telling someone that they don't have a right to express their opinion without the threat of physical harm.

A society where that is acceptable is not free.

Verbatim · November 15, 2018, 12:31:33 PM

Quote from: Aether on November 15, 2018, 12:24:42 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on November 15, 2018, 12:05:36 PM
Quote from: Aether on November 15, 2018, 12:04:10 PM
Violence against ideas is authoritarian
could just be cathartic
A lot of it is probably very cathartic for people, but it's still essentially telling someone that they don't have a right to express their opinion without the threat of physical harm.

A society where that is acceptable is not free.

freedom is overrated

November 15, 2018, 12:46:26 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on November 15, 2018, 12:31:33 PM

Quote from: Aether on November 15, 2018, 12:24:42 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on November 15, 2018, 12:05:36 PM
Quote from: Aether on November 15, 2018, 12:04:10 PM
Violence against ideas is authoritarian
could just be cathartic
A lot of it is probably very cathartic for people, but it's still essentially telling someone that they don't have a right to express their opinion without the threat of physical harm.

A society where that is acceptable is not free.
freedom is overrated

Where do we draw the line? Saying "violence in response to a thought is wrong" is a practical, enforceable ideal. With "violence is okay in response to dangerous thoughts", you need a government to dictate what dangerous thoughts entail. What if they decided antinatalistic views are dangerous? What if they decided they can monitor your posts on the Internet, and because privacy is useless if you're not doing anything wrong, you have no way to defend yourself from that?

I respect a lot of your views, but sometimes you come off as very reactionary, and this is one of those cases. You need to think out the long term consequences of these kinds of social vendettas against the wrong people.

Elai · November 15, 2018, 12:51:46 PM

tolerating intolerance leads to intolerance of tolerance

November 15, 2018, 01:02:53 PM

Quote from: Eli on November 15, 2018, 12:51:46 PM

tolerating intolerance leads to intolerance of tolerance

It's not tolerating it. There are many ways to combat racism/sexism/bigotry, and the best one is social ostracization or being unable to find a job because no one wants to associate with you. Going and inciting violence against them isn't only immoral, it makes them look like the oppressed victims and makes them dig in their heels more.

Elai · November 15, 2018, 01:57:34 PM

Quote from: Carmen on November 15, 2018, 01:02:53 PM

Quote from: Eli on November 15, 2018, 12:51:46 PM
tolerating intolerance leads to intolerance of tolerance
It's not tolerating it. There are many ways to combat racism/sexism/bigotry, and the best one is social ostracization or being unable to find a job because no one wants to associate with you. Going and inciting violence against them isn't only immoral, it makes them look like the oppressed victims and makes them dig in their heels more.

i was just posting absentmindedly, not necessarily in response to you

Coomer · November 15, 2018, 02:44:08 PM

Two things cannot be true at the same time ever