Quote from: eggsalad on April 18, 2016, 11:22:03 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 18, 2016, 11:16:22 PMYou might as well question math. Why does 2+2=4? Why doesn't it equal 6?You're more akin to saying that because 2 + 2 = 4, 4 is a better number than 2.If "4" represents the number of orgasms I have per week, then yes, 4 is a better number than 2. Objectively.
Quote from: Verbatim on April 18, 2016, 11:16:22 PMYou might as well question math. Why does 2+2=4? Why doesn't it equal 6?You're more akin to saying that because 2 + 2 = 4, 4 is a better number than 2.
You might as well question math. Why does 2+2=4? Why doesn't it equal 6?
Then where does your authority to declare that there is an objective truth (required to contradict nihilism) come from?
There isn't logic you fuckwit. "Pain is bad because it doesn't feel good!". Why does that matter? "Because it doesn't feel good!!!"
Your premise is that pain makes you (and others) feel bad therefor its objectively bad.
Off topic here, but this discussion earlier put me behind on the data I was getting together for tomorrow and I got to get up early for work. I hate you all now.
Quote from: Prime μ₂ on April 18, 2016, 11:39:28 PMQuote from: zenengerX on April 18, 2016, 11:38:23 PMOff topic here, but this discussion earlier put me behind on the data I was getting together for tomorrow and I got to get up early for work. I hate you all now.Thanks me toome three thanksOkay, now time for coffee.
Quote from: zenengerX on April 18, 2016, 11:38:23 PMOff topic here, but this discussion earlier put me behind on the data I was getting together for tomorrow and I got to get up early for work. I hate you all now.Thanks me too
If something is not good, then it is bad or it is a zero sum change.Is the notion that good is preferable to bad a point of contention? Is a good change not better than no change?
Moreover, isn't it questionable that most things are objectively knowable?
Quote from: Prime μ₂ on April 18, 2016, 11:38:03 PMIf something is not good, then it is bad or it is a zero sum change.Is the notion that good is preferable to bad a point of contention? Is a good change not better than no change?who is this directed towards
I think it's weird that you think feelings/experiences like pain are equivalent to qualities like goodness and badness.
Moreover, isn't it questionable that most things are objectively knowable? It seems to me that if there are any pieces of knowledge for which the objective truth can be known, they must be very few in number.
I don't have the "authority." I have the knowledge.
I mean, I'm really not going to let someone who has never had cancer, who has never lost a limb, and who has never suffered through anything, really, tell me that suffering doesn't matter. Please come back to me in twenty years and see if you don't grow out of this childish philosophy. And it IS childish. Most people grow out of nihilism by age 6.
Yes. It's called a tautology. It is tautological that pain is bad, and anything that is bad must not exist.
It's as tautological as "the shortest distance between two points is a straight line."
LOL HOLY SHIT HE THINKS PAIN IS AN EMOTION
i only use the word "objectively" to prod at people's sides
You've yet to substantiate anything.
Except for the fact that this is demonstrable, while the statement, "suffering is objectively bad" is not.
We've been using anguish and emotional suffering pretty much interchangeably here.
oh my bad. i thought you were being serious.also what if i'm a sadist-masochist who has an innate desire to see people (and by extension, society) suffer? is pain good then
it's not just about my pain nerdit's about others' as welltheir suffering makes me feel goodso is their pain and their suffering good?
what if i'm someone who thinks consent is bad
Quote from: Tsirist on April 19, 2016, 12:01:39 AMit's not just about my pain nerdit's about others' as welltheir suffering makes me feel goodso is their pain and their suffering good?People not being in pain and suffering has a greater social utility than you having a jolly.
Quote from: Prime μ₂ on April 19, 2016, 12:05:33 AMQuote from: Tsirist on April 19, 2016, 12:01:39 AMit's not just about my pain nerdit's about others' as welltheir suffering makes me feel goodso is their pain and their suffering good?People not being in pain and suffering has a greater social utility than you having a jolly.but i'm roleplaying as someone who sees no value in social utilitythe greatest utility i can achieve is in seeing people hurt
but i'm roleplaying as someone who sees no value in social utilitythe greatest utility i can achieve is in seeing people hurt
Quote from: Tsirist on April 19, 2016, 12:01:39 AMit's not just about my pain nerdit's about others' as welltheir suffering makes me feel goodso is their pain and their suffering good?Its subjective to which person you ask, of course to yourself its 'good' but suffering in general is not good, it is the opposite.
Pain is bad. Refute that, concede defeat, or shut the fuck up.
Yes it is. Jam a fork in your eye and tell me how it feels, and then compare that to eating a cupcake.
I'm not talking about emotions AT fucking all, stupid-ass. I'm talking about the sensation of pain. Fuck emotion.
I conceded that pain is something all living things avoid and asked you to provide why that fact means we need to prevent it. You didn't, you haven't. Please do.
"Pain is objectively bad and it is imperative to avoid it because you don't want to experience it!"
Spoiler If you thought this* was the moral option
