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Spoiler If you thought this* was the moral option

 
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
โ€”Judge Aaron Satie
โ€”โ€”Carmen
*turning in Ellie to get the vaccine

then you're an idiot

The human rights of one is more important than the lives of many.
Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 05:46:27 PM by SecondClass

 
 
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You will find out who you are not a thousand times, before you ever discover who you are. I hope you find peace in yourself and learn to love instead of hate.
Because we haven't told you enough times your views are shit?

 
 
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
โ€”Judge Aaron Satie
โ€”โ€”Carmen
Quote from: goootsbyX on April 18, 2016, 05:36:38 PM
Because we haven't told you enough times your views are shit?
my views are perfect and anyone who disagrees with them has the mental capacity of a rattlesnake

 
 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
โ€”Judge Aaron Satie
โ€”โ€”Carmen
Quote from: challengerX on April 18, 2016, 05:41:43 PM
Thanks for the spoilers you fucking piece of camel shit
fuck

 
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
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โ€”โ€”Carmen
Quote from: zenengerX on April 18, 2016, 05:47:35 PM
Also, the only human that matters is the self. Fuck Ellie's life if it makes sure my own continues.
Every human life matters, but some things matter more. Like human rights.

If someone was told (somehow objectively truthfully) "you have to kill yourself or one million people are going to die", he has no obligation whatsoever to kill himself.

 
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
โ€”Judge Aaron Satie
โ€”โ€”Carmen
Quote from: zenengerX on April 18, 2016, 05:57:23 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on April 18, 2016, 05:50:24 PM
Quote from: zenengerX on April 18, 2016, 05:47:35 PM
Also, the only human that matters is the self. Fuck Ellie's life if it makes sure my own continues.
Every human life matters, but some things matter more. Like human rights.

If someone was told (somehow objectively truthfully) "you have to kill yourself or one million people are going to die", he has no obligation whatsoever to kill himself.
and I wouldn't kill myself in that scenario as well. However, in Joel's case, a cure would benefit him as well since he is just as likely to get the virus as anyone else. He just let Ellie take precedence to his better judgement.
You're missing what I'm saying. I would kill myself in that situation, to save all those people. But even if I was one of the people, I wouldn't try to force the guy to kill himself, that's wrong.

The self matters just as much as others matter, but both are temporary, both will die eventually regardless. Preserving morality and individual rights for the people still here is much more important than minimizing deaths that, in the long run, are inevitable anyway.

 
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The middle routes are the only logical options, hopefully the wrangled corpses of enough people will have the trolley come to a grinding halt and save everybody else.

Quote from: Jeremiah Johnson on April 18, 2016, 06:20:58 PM

 
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You're right, but it's even shittier that the developers couldn't think of anything more creative than that stupid choice. There's really no reason removing a tissue sample of her brain would kill her, and Joel basically just murders a bunch of well-meaning doctors because muh vidya morality.

 
 
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
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Quote from: Jeremiah Johnson on April 18, 2016, 06:09:11 PM
Also rights don't exist as anything more than a social construct.
And the piece of toast in front of me doesn't exist as anything more than a conglomeration of molecules.

 
 
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
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โ€”โ€”Carmen
Quote from: Jeremiah Johnson on April 18, 2016, 06:08:16 PM

Inaction is the action there. I'm talking about a hypothetical where someone is expected to give up their life for the lives of others. It makes you heroic if you choose to make that sacrifice, but it doesn't make you a bad person in the slightest if you choose not to.

 
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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
โ€”Judge Aaron Satie
โ€”โ€”Carmen
Quote from: Jeremiah Johnson on April 18, 2016, 08:20:25 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on April 18, 2016, 08:11:34 PM
Quote from: Jeremiah Johnson on April 18, 2016, 06:09:11 PM
Also rights don't exist as anything more than a social construct.
And the piece of toast in front of me doesn't exist as anything more than a conglomeration of molecules.
What the fuck does that even mean
It means the fact that they're a social construct doesn't mean they're any less real. Morality is a social construct, justice is a social construct, ideas in general are a social construct. Yet they're just as real as any physical object sitting in front of me, and still live on when that piece of toast is nothing but dust.

 
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