Why do you think that the government is always days away from enslaving us?

After every mass shooting someone cries for "common sense" gun regulation. Usually this is banning military style weapons, closing loopholes and creating a cradle to grave registration for gun so we know where illegal sales happen.

The argument always devolves to "the government is about to go tyrannical, we need these to stop it."

Why do you believe this?

I also have a question for all of the many Reptilian truthers on these forums.

Quote from: Flee on October 04, 2017, 03:44:29 AM

Quote from: Ossus on October 04, 2017, 01:34:09 AM

There's a few things I'm unconvinced by. One, that we're going to see such a response from Spain. Two, that guns would be anything but a detriment in this situation. Three, that the US federal government would go to war with a secceding state and its civilians. Four, that guns would help.

The Spanish government has already responded violently, and so has the American government.

This age is no more civilized than the last.

You owe your fealty first to your neighbour, never forget that.

Decentralization and rebellion is the only way to prevent a police state and preserve our freedom.

Quote from: Ossus on October 04, 2017, 03:47:53 AM

Quote from: Flee on October 04, 2017, 03:44:29 AM

Quote from: Ossus on October 04, 2017, 01:34:09 AM

There's a few things I'm unconvinced by. One, that we're going to see such a response from Spain. Two, that guns would be anything but a detriment in this situation. Three, that the US federal government would go to war with a secceding state and its civilians. Four, that guns would help.

The Spanish government has already responded violently, and so has the American government.

This age is no more civilized than the last.

You owe your fealty first to your neighbour, never forget that.

The Spanish police reacted overly violent against a vote its constitutional court deemed illegal. With the eyes of the world on them and (albeit limited) condemnations of the violence by the EU and UN, I'm not seeing a substantiation that they'll really "bring down the hammer" or violently force a stop to the Catalan search for independence.

And the rest doesn't really address my other comments. I'm not unsympathetic to the idea of an armed population resisting a tyrant, but I'm not convinced that it's a good argument in this case.

If you don't call storming polling places violently forcing a stop to independence, I'm not sure what you would.

If you wait for civil war to break out before you see the need to arm the civilians, you're too late. These days battles aren't fought on fields, they clamber through streets and erupt into homes.

But it's like I said, they're rebels. Why on earth would they respect the rulings of a court they no longer see as having power over them? The Spanish are afraid of the Catalan will, and Washington is afraid of the Americans.

I wish we lived in a world where there was no need to fight wars. Peaceful protest and civil disobedience accomplished a great deal in the 20th century. There's a realist in me too though, and he says that we still live in an era where the majority of conflicts relating to who governs who are solved with bullets.

It could happen to you too.

Because it's foolish to put blind faith in the government and to think they only have our best interests in mind. It's not so much a fear of overnight tyranny, but widdling away at our rights little by little until it's too late for everyone.

Quote from: Ossus on October 04, 2017, 10:02:48 AM

If you don't call storming polling places violently forcing a stop to independence, I'm not sure what you would.

I would call that trying to stop an illegal vote with disproportionate force exerted by some police officers. To me, that's still a long way removed from sending in the military to "bring the hammer down" and stamp out the "rebels" looking for independence. And I'm still not convinced that the rest of your comment is substantiated. I disagree that violence is the way out or final conclusion. I think that firearms would only make this situation much, much worse and escalate it to a full blown civil war. One shot it all it takes. In our global society of international scrutiny, Spain can't and won't just massacre these people for dissenting. It would not only cause an international crisis for the country, but it would destroy it entirely. There is no possible outcome I see in which guns would improve anything.

To the Catalans the vote was perfect legal. Its called a declaration of independence, not a request of independence. To Spain the vote was an act of rebellion (which, by definition, it is), so they struck the first blow.

Spain wants to win this war without firing a shot. The more riot police solve this problem the less they have to acknowledge the will of Democracy. Passive resistance is just going to result in them forcing Spain to pull the trigger.

And International scrutiny is laughable as a reason not to go to war. Or are the Spanish inherently more civilized and bashful about being judged than the Russians?

Quote from: Genghis Khan on October 04, 2017, 11:39:47 AM

Neither of them ever said anything like that.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/societyquote.asp

not to take away from the snopes entry but "Reducto Ad Hitlerum" sounds like an autistic fan created Harry Potter spell

Not one myself, but it's probably something along these lines;


Kinda ignores that some police in the US do have access to military vehicles and other gear that's not capable of "glassing" an area and more along the lines of wiping out a house full of insurgents, as well as having reserves or the actual military troops that would likely be patrolling towns in such a scenario, but meh.

Defection rate would be bretty devastating in a war on american citizens, especially in the reserve components.

Also, spicy maymay with slight relevance

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 05, 2017, 09:41:47 PM

Quote from: Πlot on October 04, 2017, 06:46:24 AM

Not one myself, but it's probably something along these lines;


Kinda ignores that some police in the US do have access to military vehicles and other gear that's not capable of "glassing" an area and more along the lines of wiping out a house full of insurgents, as well as having reserves or the actual military troops that would likely be patrolling towns in such a scenario, but meh.

Defection rate would be bretty devastating in a war on american citizens, especially in the reserve components.

Also, spicy maymay with slight relevance

Umm... Didn't the US arm both of the fighters...

Maybe, maybe not. You can't prove that in a court of law.

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 05, 2017, 11:59:18 PM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 05, 2017, 11:50:53 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 05, 2017, 09:41:47 PM

Quote from: Πlot on October 04, 2017, 06:46:24 AM

Not one myself, but it's probably something along these lines;


Kinda ignores that some police in the US do have access to military vehicles and other gear that's not capable of "glassing" an area and more along the lines of wiping out a house full of insurgents, as well as having reserves or the actual military troops that would likely be patrolling towns in such a scenario, but meh.

Defection rate would be bretty devastating in a war on american citizens, especially in the reserve components.

Also, spicy maymay with slight relevance

Umm... Didn't the US arm both of the fighters...

Maybe, maybe not. You can't prove that in a court of law.

Afghanistan? That's fact bro.

Iran Contra? I thought Olly went down for that

Watch out, brah. Black suited G men commin for ya. You know too much. I know too much.

I know how to get enough ammonium nitrate fertilizer without the feds realizing it to make the OK city bombing look like some little firecracker. Obama can't ban this mind. Lizard ass motherfucker be shakin. 

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 06, 2017, 12:08:22 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 06, 2017, 12:04:36 AM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 05, 2017, 11:59:18 PM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 05, 2017, 11:50:53 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 05, 2017, 09:41:47 PM

Quote from: Πlot on October 04, 2017, 06:46:24 AM

Not one myself, but it's probably something along these lines;


Kinda ignores that some police in the US do have access to military vehicles and other gear that's not capable of "glassing" an area and more along the lines of wiping out a house full of insurgents, as well as having reserves or the actual military troops that would likely be patrolling towns in such a scenario, but meh.

Defection rate would be bretty devastating in a war on american citizens, especially in the reserve components.

Also, spicy maymay with slight relevance

Umm... Didn't the US arm both of the fighters...

Maybe, maybe not. You can't prove that in a court of law.

Afghanistan? That's fact bro.

Iran Contra? I thought Olly went down for that

Watch out, brah. Black suited G men commin for ya. You know too much. I know too much.

I know how to get enough ammonium nitrate fertilizer without the feds realizing it to make the OK city bombing look like some little firecracker. Obama can't ban this mind. Lizard ass motherfucker be shakin.

Man, it's like you want CID up in your shit

Bring it on. They have one ingress point.

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 06, 2017, 12:24:45 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 06, 2017, 12:22:00 AM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 06, 2017, 12:08:22 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 06, 2017, 12:04:36 AM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 05, 2017, 11:59:18 PM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on October 05, 2017, 11:50:53 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 05, 2017, 09:41:47 PM

Quote from: Πlot on October 04, 2017, 06:46:24 AM

Not one myself, but it's probably something along these lines;


Kinda ignores that some police in the US do have access to military vehicles and other gear that's not capable of "glassing" an area and more along the lines of wiping out a house full of insurgents, as well as having reserves or the actual military troops that would likely be patrolling towns in such a scenario, but meh.

Defection rate would be bretty devastating in a war on american citizens, especially in the reserve components.

Also, spicy maymay with slight relevance

Umm... Didn't the US arm both of the fighters...

Maybe, maybe not. You can't prove that in a court of law.

Afghanistan? That's fact bro.

Iran Contra? I thought Olly went down for that

Watch out, brah. Black suited G men commin for ya. You know too much. I know too much.

I know how to get enough ammonium nitrate fertilizer without the feds realizing it to make the OK city bombing look like some little firecracker. Obama can't ban this mind. Lizard ass motherfucker be shakin.

Man, it's like you want CID up in your shit

Bring it on. They have one ingress point.

Your call, bro. You know better than to post shit like that.

I'm IRR already bro. I got the papers saying "honorable discharge" on the other side of the room.