I know ROTJ is considered the weakest of the OT but it had the best fight.

Verbatim · December 21, 2016, 12:30:39 AM

Quote from: 「Prime」 on December 21, 2016, 12:17:09 AM

In RotJ, he has this weird mix between contemporary speech and shakespeare.

a fair mix, given the timespan between episode 4 and 6 (four years)

it doesn't seem far-fetched to me that he'd take a level in diplomacy in that timespan--and ANH is as much a coming-of-age story as it is a space opera; so naturally, the end of the story, he's gonna sound more like the adult he's become, but still not full-on shakespeare (or yoda, for that matter)--a mix seems appropriate to me

i wouldn't be shocked if, in episode 8, luke speaks to rey the same way ben spoke to him--alec guinness being about as shakespearian as you can get in a film written for a wide audience

Verbatim · December 21, 2016, 12:48:19 AM

ANH needed a whole separate movie, a soft reboot made three decades later, to do over everything it failed at

and ANOTHER whole separate movie--made nearly four decades later--to write off one of its biggest flaws

that's how good ANH is

Jono · December 21, 2016, 02:56:52 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 21, 2016, 12:48:19 AM

ANH needed a whole separate movie, a soft reboot made three decades later, to do over everything it failed at

and ANOTHER whole separate movie--made nearly four decades later--to write off one of its biggest flaws

that's how good ANH is

ANH is the best Star Wars movie

🍁 Aria 🔮 · December 21, 2016, 02:57:27 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 21, 2016, 12:48:19 AM

ANH needed a whole separate movie, a soft reboot made three decades later, to do over everything it failed at

and ANOTHER whole separate movie--made nearly four decades later--to write off one of its biggest flaws

that's how good ANH is

I disagree with the first one entirely tbh. It's not a soft reboot because of whatever mistakes ANH had, it's a soft reboot because it's made 40 years later. It'd be a bit hard to do the Thrawn trilogy nowadays outside of animation. I don't think it's a "do over" at all, it's literally made as a love letter to ANH. TFA recaptures the same energy as it, and that's why it's one of my favorites from the franchise despite some of its weaker moments.

To the second point, I would agree that it's the movie's biggest flaw; that being said, it's the only real major flaw I can think of. You could also argue that the Empire likely never conceived of the issue given the enormous power of the station and the amount of defenses laid out around it. Hell, Luke only makes it to the end of the trench and the shot because of the force. Everybody else either died, pulled out because they were about to die, or missed. The movie definitely tried to make it seem like more of a challenge, but Luke's raw potential overshadows that.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · December 21, 2016, 03:02:20 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 21, 2016, 12:30:39 AM

Quote from: 「Prime」 on December 21, 2016, 12:17:09 AM
In RotJ, he has this weird mix between contemporary speech and shakespeare.
a fair mix, given the timespan between episode 4 and 6 (four years)

it doesn't seem far-fetched to me that he'd take a level in diplomacy in that timespan--and ANH is as much a coming-of-age story as it is a space opera; so naturally, the end of the story, he's gonna sound more like the adult he's become, but still not full-on shakespeare (or yoda, for that matter)--a mix seems appropriate to me

i wouldn't be shocked if, in episode 8, luke speaks to rey the same way ben spoke to him--alec guinness being about as shakespearian as you can get in a film written for a wide audience

It's more a matter of making sense; Anakin talked like Macbeth because he lived around people who spoke that way. Luke, after Empire (months before RotJ, still speaking like he did in ANH) spent months in a cave on Tattooine. It doesn't come off as "speaking like an adult" so much as "speaking like a different character".

Like I said, the movie isn't the weakest of the OT (ESB takes that), but I do have my issues with it. The difference between the flaws in ANH and RotJ for me is that ANH's flaws don't take me out of the movie and RotJ's do.

Verbatim · December 21, 2016, 03:14:36 AM

Quote from: 「Prime」 on December 21, 2016, 02:57:27 AM

I disagree with the first one entirely tbh. It's not a soft reboot because of whatever mistakes ANH had, it's a soft reboot because it's made 40 years later. It'd be a bit hard to do the Thrawn trilogy nowadays outside of animation. I don't think it's a "do over" at all, it's literally made as a love letter to ANH. TFA recaptures the same energy as it, and that's why it's one of my favorites from the franchise despite some of its weaker moments.

i'm not saying it was made as a do-over--i'm saying it functions very well as a do-over if you so happened to hate ANH

which i did

so for the 3 people in the universe who didn't like the first star wars movie, they can watch the same movie again, but with a modern twist--everything ANH did, TFA did better, but ANH still gets credit for doing them first (however badly)

🍁 Aria 🔮 · December 21, 2016, 03:28:52 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 21, 2016, 03:14:36 AM

Quote from: 「Prime」 on December 21, 2016, 02:57:27 AM
I disagree with the first one entirely tbh. It's not a soft reboot because of whatever mistakes ANH had, it's a soft reboot because it's made 40 years later. It'd be a bit hard to do the Thrawn trilogy nowadays outside of animation. I don't think it's a "do over" at all, it's literally made as a love letter to ANH. TFA recaptures the same energy as it, and that's why it's one of my favorites from the franchise despite some of its weaker moments.
i'm not saying it was made as a do-over--i'm saying it functions very well as a do-over if you so happened to hate ANH

which i did

so for the 3 people in the universe who didn't like the first star wars movie, they can watch the same movie again, but with a modern twist--everything ANH did, TFA did better, but ANH still gets credit for doing them first (however badly)

I guess I get what you're saying, it's more the phrasing that's kind of irking me. $:-\$

Luciana · December 21, 2016, 03:51:17 AM

Not really on topic, but I'll throw this in

I like how they handle Light Saber fights in TFA. It's not overly choreographed like episode 1-3, but not exactly super dull like 4-6. It's looks like people actually swinging swords around, while trying not to get hit. It also feels like they have some weight and power behind them.

And I'm glad Kylo Ren doesn't have a light saber that IS his personality (Darth Maul in ep 1)

December 21, 2016, 04:34:54 AM

Quote from: Luciana on December 21, 2016, 03:51:17 AM

And I'm glad Kylo Ren doesn't have a light saber that IS his personality (Darth Maul in ep 1)

Darth Maul didn't really have a split personality until he encountered Obi Wan.

BaconShelf · December 21, 2016, 05:09:18 AM

Honestly all of my problems with Jedi could be solved if the Ewoks were Wookies or something.

Luciana · December 21, 2016, 05:23:21 AM

Quote from: Vien on December 21, 2016, 04:34:54 AM

Quote from: Luciana on December 21, 2016, 03:51:17 AM

And I'm glad Kylo Ren doesn't have a light saber that IS his personality (Darth Maul in ep 1)

Darth Maul didn't really have a split personality until he encountered Obi Wan.

That's actually very funny lol

Luciana · December 21, 2016, 05:24:38 AM

Quote from: BaconShelf on December 21, 2016, 05:09:18 AM

Honestly all of my problems with Jedi could be solved if the Ewoks were Wookies or something.

That'd have been much better, considering Wookies are actually powerhouses. Ewoks were just silly teddy bears, and everything involving them was meh. Even with Verbs reasoning of it being a childs movie, it was still incredibly boring and out of place whenever they showed up and worshiped C-3PO being a god or whatever.

The ending party with them was fine though.

Verbatim · December 21, 2016, 05:44:17 AM

RotJ's ending with everyone celebrating is the most cathartic shit ever. Makes me feel damn good, ever tiem. What a perfect ending, made only better in the special editions.

People will complain about the Ewoks until the end of time--I'm basically just numb to them at this point. They're there, they've always been there, they don't bother me, I don't care, I never cared. They're fine, especially for the little ones.

Luciana · December 21, 2016, 05:53:45 AM

I honestly don't mind the Anakin being there. I understand why people are mad about it, and have every single right to be. I just personally am not affected by it.

I suppose that's the same with you and the Ewoks, so I get it. I honestly didn't mind the celebration thing though.

Zizzy · December 21, 2016, 07:00:55 AM

Quote from: Luciana on December 21, 2016, 05:53:45 AM

I honestly don't mind the Anakin being there. I understand why people are mad about it, and have every single right to be. I just personally am not affected by it.

Same, especially since I find it difficult to make a connect between Anakin and Vader, I just can't imagine Vader once being who he was in the prequels.

Spartan · December 21, 2016, 08:45:01 AM

Quote from: BaconShelf on December 21, 2016, 05:09:18 AM

Honestly all of my problems with Jedi could be solved if the Ewoks were Wookies or something.

Sheev may have had his best troops down on Endor, but he didn't account for teddy bears

Spartan · December 21, 2016, 08:47:41 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 21, 2016, 05:44:17 AM

made only better in the special editions.

I actually really liked seeing Naboo and Coruscant celebrating, especially Coruscant since it was the imperial capital iirc

Luciana · December 21, 2016, 10:02:33 AM

Quote from: Zizzy on December 21, 2016, 07:00:55 AM

Quote from: Luciana on December 21, 2016, 05:53:45 AM
I honestly don't mind the Anakin being there. I understand why people are mad about it, and have every single right to be. I just personally am not affected by it.
Same, especially since I find it difficult to make a connect between Anakin and Vader, I just can't imagine Vader once being who he was in the prequels.

I can. They tied him together well in episode 3.

Ian · December 21, 2016, 10:58:01 AM

The only change that bothered me in RoTJ.

YouTube

The silence was important, it was supposed to show Vader's internal conflict and how hard it was. Having that "No" just completely threw it all out.

big sponge · December 21, 2016, 11:36:20 AM

the only changes that bother me are the ones where lucas went back and digitally replaced old actors with new and different ones

Luciana · December 21, 2016, 11:37:38 AM

I'm glad I don't have that version.

Verbatim · December 21, 2016, 11:41:24 AM

Someone should splice together the best parts of each edition so we can all be happy.

There were PLENTY of good edits, as collected in this video:

YouTube

Luciana · December 21, 2016, 03:22:42 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 21, 2016, 11:41:24 AM

Someone should splice together the best parts of each edition so we can all be happy.

There were PLENTY of good edits, as collected in this video:

YouTube

Yeah I agree. Some reshoots (such as the song and Vader going NO at the end) are completely silly, but all of these add much needed "life" into it that makes it more watchable in today's times. Idk about you, but it'd be very hard to watch the prequels and the new tech they put into that, only to jump back to ANH/Empire and see such silliness and empty crap. But this makes it feel like it really does take place after the prequels.