Gun rights

Flee · February 24, 2016, 04:05:03 PM

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DAS B00T x2 · February 24, 2016, 04:06:14 PM

Shall not be infringed.

RomanGladiator · February 24, 2016, 04:07:27 PM

Personally, I have no reason to want one myself even for recreation. But I know there are plenty of people that do. I'm all in favor of longer background checks. You should not be able to buy a gun the day you walk into the store, anywhere. That is my opinion, and laws I would make based upon it. It's like no one has any patience to wait for something that is deadly. What's the big hurry?

Flee · February 24, 2016, 04:07:42 PM

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DAS B00T x2 · February 24, 2016, 04:08:19 PM

God did not create all men equal, so Samuel Colt made all men equal.

Turkey · February 24, 2016, 04:08:21 PM

Quote from: Flee on February 24, 2016, 04:05:03 PM

fundamental, natural, universal and inalienable human right

No, but it is a Constitutional right. Should it continue to be one? Yeah.

Mordo · February 24, 2016, 04:12:56 PM

You've gone incoherent.

February 24, 2016, 04:14:22 PM

My brother restored a Kar98 and sold it for $200. He deserves to have his rights taken away and his legs broken.

Jocephalopod · February 24, 2016, 04:14:51 PM

everyone should have the ability to defend themselves

that being said, those who wish to buy a gun should be required to pass certain procedures in order to obtain a license.

II wouldn't want to give any sick individual the ability to buy a shotgun willy nilly and aim it at their dog's head.

DAS B00T x2 · February 24, 2016, 04:15:16 PM

I've got some salad tongs with scary black polymer handles. Should we ban assault utensils too?

DAS B00T x2 · February 24, 2016, 04:23:03 PM

Quote from: RomanGladiator on February 24, 2016, 04:07:27 PM

Personally, I have no reason to want one myself even for recreation. But I know there are plenty of people that do. I'm all in favor of longer background checks. You should not be able to buy a gun the day you walk into the store, anywhere. That is my opinion, and laws I would make based upon it. It's like no one has any patience to wait for something that is deadly. What's the big hurry?

Why would it take more than a day to run someone's name through a federal conviction or psychiatric admission database?

Flee · February 24, 2016, 04:23:03 PM

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Flee · February 24, 2016, 04:25:29 PM

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Flee · February 24, 2016, 04:26:30 PM

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snee0rp · February 24, 2016, 04:26:43 PM

Rights don't exist. They're simply a set of limits a government may choose to impose upon itself.

RomanGladiator · February 24, 2016, 04:27:20 PM

Quote from: Flee on February 24, 2016, 04:25:29 PM

Quote from: RomanGladiator on February 24, 2016, 04:07:27 PM
Personally, I have no reason to want one myself even for recreation. But I know there are plenty of people that do. I'm all in favor of longer background checks. You should not be able to buy a gun the day you walk into the store, anywhere. That is my opinion, and laws I would make based upon it. It's like no one has any patience to wait for something that is deadly. What's the big hurry?
That's not really what I was asking though. I don't think many people believe it's an absolute right, so supporting certain restrictions on the bearing of arms does not mean anything. Do you think it's a fundamental human right?

I don't think it is, there's many more enjoyable things to do than firing metal projectiles from a gas powered machine. People can live without guns.

N/A · February 24, 2016, 04:27:27 PM

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snee0rp · February 24, 2016, 04:29:05 PM

Quote from: Trump will create waifus on February 24, 2016, 04:27:27 PM

I personally don't care about em. Living in a rural area though, I know that hunting rifles have their usage here, so I got nothing against that. For personal protection, I don't have problems with people having a gun in their home as well. I just don't sympathize with those who think "we need guns from stopping the government from oppressing us." A handgun isn't going to stop a government that owns nukes and unmanned drones.

In the last 10 years, the US has lost 2 wars to uneducated men in holes with outdated weaponry.

Elai · February 24, 2016, 04:31:57 PM

I'm from Canada and I'm undecided. On the one hand, I view gun ownership as such a childish and vain hobby, but then I look at my comic book collection and say the same thing. I understand the cultural significance of gun ownership in the U.S., but I do think it is a little ridiculous that you can buy a gun at something like Wal-Mart.

Ultimately, the problem isn't the guns, it's the people. If responsible people want to have guns, let them. To me, it's more about personal liberties than, say, safety or hunting, like some people like to think. I don't buy the "I need to protect my family and my house" argument.

There's my unfleshed-out, amateur opinion on it.

Jono · February 24, 2016, 04:39:01 PM

Its my constitutional right to own a mk 19 grenade launcher and minigun

Jocephalopod · February 24, 2016, 04:57:20 PM

Quote from: Flee on February 24, 2016, 04:26:30 PM

Quote from: Jocephalopod on February 24, 2016, 04:14:51 PM
everyone should have the ability to defend themselves
Of course, but does there exist a fundamental human right to a specific way of defending oneself?

well.. technological advances have forced the firearm's role as the specific weapon.

i'd say no specific way... imo the population should have access to whatever instrument is most effective in deterring/stopping a threat.

nͫiͤcͫeͤ · February 24, 2016, 05:07:24 PM

Quote from: Trump will create waifus on February 24, 2016, 04:27:27 PM

I personally don't care about em. Living in a rural area though, I know that hunting rifles have their usage here, so I got nothing against that. For personal protection, I don't have problems with people having a gun in their home as well. I just don't sympathize with those who think "we need guns from stopping the government from oppressing us." A handgun isn't going to stop a government that owns nukes and unmanned drones.

at one point it may have been possible to overthrow the government, but in modern times we're pretty much fucked if shtf

Ingy · February 24, 2016, 05:08:48 PM

Well this is an argument of freedom vs security
We are expected to give up certain freedoms to maintain security
And weapons designed to kill via speeding hot pieces of lead are pretty bad for security

So no

challengerX · February 24, 2016, 05:11:50 PM

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Sandtrap · February 24, 2016, 05:13:17 PM

Honestly, I wouldn't call owning a gun a fundamental, natural, universal and inalienable human right to have. Nothing close to it.

The first, and primary purpose of a gun, being the tool that it is, is to kill or severely injure something in the name of offensive or defensive actions. The two secondary purposes being non lethal target practice if you're a marksman or a showman, or it being used for a collection.

Personally I would never own one or use one unless I had to. And I think that you have to really understand the implications of owning one, and have the knowledge and intelligence to use it properly, which a lot of people demonstrate neither of.

I don't think it's a right, but I think the people who demonstrate and show that they can handle the responsibility of owning the tool, caring for it, and making sure that it can't fullfill it's primary purpose immidiately if it were ever stolen should have the green light to own it. Or, unless they live in an environment that practically neccessitates it. (Basically some parts of the States at this point)

But I wouldn't ever call it an inborn fundamental right. For every other tool out there you have to demonstrate that you have the skills and knowledge to properly use it and care for it. Same should apply to firearms.

Assassin 11D7 · February 24, 2016, 05:19:42 PM

Quote from: 3bp on February 24, 2016, 05:07:24 PM

Quote from: Trump will create waifus on February 24, 2016, 04:27:27 PM
I personally don't care about em. Living in a rural area though, I know that hunting rifles have their usage here, so I got nothing against that. For personal protection, I don't have problems with people having a gun in their home as well. I just don't sympathize with those who think "we need guns from stopping the government from oppressing us." A handgun isn't going to stop a government that owns nukes and unmanned drones.
at one point it may have been possible to overthrow the government, but in modern times we're pretty much fucked if shtf

If there was any reason for a serious rebellion to happen the federal government would be shitting its frilly panties. Infrastructure is shit, media and government communication/surveillance would crash if communications lines were taken down, and there would undoubtedly be large numbers of defectors in the military/Gov't agencies.

They won't outright take gun rights away or do anything else drastic because of this.

Ender · February 24, 2016, 05:19:46 PM

gats · February 24, 2016, 05:23:08 PM

Quote from: Hargbeast on February 24, 2016, 04:29:05 PM

Quote from: Trump will create waifus on February 24, 2016, 04:27:27 PM
I personally don't care about em. Living in a rural area though, I know that hunting rifles have their usage here, so I got nothing against that. For personal protection, I don't have problems with people having a gun in their home as well. I just don't sympathize with those who think "we need guns from stopping the government from oppressing us." A handgun isn't going to stop a government that owns nukes and unmanned drones.
In the last 10 years, the US has lost 2 wars to uneducated men in holes with outdated weaponry.

yeah because a dusty ak and the will of raghead is what made the US lose the war in iraq and afghanistan

Sandtrap · February 24, 2016, 05:23:11 PM

Quote from: Ender on February 24, 2016, 05:19:46 PM

I have a question for you, Flee. What about gun rights for people who live somewhere like Alaska or somewhere else that has lots of dangerous animals and times when people need to hunt for themselves?

I'm not flee but I can say two things.

1. The dangerous critters argument is a really poor one.

2. Bows and crossbows. Actually there's a lot of people up here who still hunt with bows rather than firearms.

Mad Max · February 24, 2016, 05:23:55 PM

Quote from: Flee on February 24, 2016, 04:05:03 PM

Is the bearing of arms and the private ownership of firearms a fundamental, natural, universal and inalienable human right, and/or should it be so?

No, it isn't, because clearly a government or controlling body is easily able to prevent you from owning firearms.

Is it a constitutional right? Yes. Constitutional rights =/= natural rights.

Poll

Is the bearing of arms and the private ownership of firearms a fundamental human right?

Gun rights