Why go after a tool that is being used irresponsibly by a few bad eggs, though? Surely, you must see that if you were even to truely restrict the ability of people to have that tool they would then use another tool in its stead?

This is really ignoring the obvious that if you were to prohibit firearms, or even severe limitations, it would work about as well as the prohibition of alcohol went.

Few bad eggs? Gun crime is really high in America. And I don't even think guns should be taken away. They should be registered, so if they are used in a crime, it can be easily found out the person responsible. And it goes for handmade guns too.

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on March 20, 2015, 05:54:31 PM

Why go after a tool that is being used irresponsibly by a few bad eggs, though? Surely, you must see that if you were even to truely restrict the ability of people to have that tool they would then use another tool in its stead?

This is really ignoring the obvious that if you were to prohibit firearms, or even severe limitations, it would work about as well as the prohibition of alcohol went.

Few bad eggs? Gun crime is really high in America. And I don't even think guns should be taken away. They should be registered, so if they are used in a crime, it can be easily found out the person responsible. And it goes for handmade guns too.

What are the statistics for gun crime, can you tell me what the culture and economic situation are for the area or the area the criminal came from, and out of how many gun owners what is the percentage that use them for crimes? I say few, because I don't think that the majority use those firearms in such a manner.

You do realize that unless the criminal drops their gun at the scene for the police to recover, that registration means nothing? Assuming the registration is physically printed onto the gun.

Quote from: Kernel Kraut on March 20, 2015, 04:16:41 PM

Who would be handling Metal Pipe registration? Would there be a person at the door asking your intention with those pieces of pipe and nails you bought to see if you need to register them? Who would be serializing them to allow for registration? When do those pieces of pipe stop being plumbing and start being gun components? Who makes the determination of where the fulcrum between Plumbing and gun is? Would registration be linked to intent to construct or would be it linked to finished construction? Who would be going out to do checks on all people who purchased pipe and nails to make sure that they don't need to register those pipes and nails? What if someone doesn't register their pipe and nails, how would anyone ever know?

There wouldn't be a "metal pipe registration". Just gun registration, like I said.
No, there wouldn't be a person asking that.
The government.
They're plumbing until they are used in a construction that is a firearm.
Finished construction.
No one.
You don't register your pipe and nails, you register a gun. Or, preferably, you don't make one.

I'm not sure if you're just being intentionally obtrusive here. It really isn't that outrageous or difficult to understand. A gun is a gun, even if it's one you made yourself. Therefore, it should be subject to the same regulations as any "normal" gun would.

I don't think you grasp how blurred the lines can be between what is, and isn't a firearm, especially when it comes to zip guns. You can take that same pipe shotgun, replace the cap, and be back to normal plumbing parts. In practicality, it simply cannot be regulated. You have no way of determining who is making what and where it's being made or who it may be going to.

I could go out and build a hundred open bolt sub machine guns for my local biker buddies to enjoy. Is that legal? No, but what do I care? Who would find out save for the people who received them? How would they be traced back to me?

If I constructed, from scratch, a rifle for my own personal use, how would the Government ever know I made it? How would they even know that I have not registered it? They simply wouldn't. No one would know till it was stumbled upon.

The point I am trying to make is that you cannot regulate human ideas or human ingenuity. Remember the case in Australia I mentioned earlier? Where a machinist was making open bolt sub machine guns in his garage? No law would have stopped him from doing that. No requirement of registration would have stopped him from doing that. The simple fact that he did build these guns flies in face of the Nation's gun ban and there was not a thing that the Government could do to stop him from doing it.

Requiring registration on home built guns will never work because of the very nature of their construction. They are built at home and the government would have no idea you're doing it. The only feasible way to prevent this, or force registration, is to check every single purchase of potential components to make sure that there is no intent to construct a firearm without registration. Does that sound like an attainable goal?

Good luck getting people to actually comply with a registration like that. It's literally impossible.

Quote from: Nexus on March 20, 2015, 06:02:18 PM

Few bad eggs? Gun crime is really high in America. And I don't even think guns should be taken away. They should be registered, so if they are used in a crime, it can be easily found out the person responsible. And it goes for handmade guns too.

Sure,  in areas densely populated with minorities.

I think we all know the real problem here, and it's not Billy-bob making his own firearms while he waits for his moonshine to ferment...

Yeah, but you can say that if you put more restrictions on guns then you just make it harder for good God-fearing christian to shoot deer and haul it back to their pick'em up trucks. But the big thing here is handmade guns being unregistered, and they should be registered, otherwise it's no different than buy a gun off the streets.

Quote from: Nexus on March 20, 2015, 05:56:23 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on March 20, 2015, 05:50:21 PM

Quote from: Nexus on March 20, 2015, 05:45:55 PM

Quote from: saⱭ tooᗺ 2x on March 20, 2015, 05:44:34 PM

Quote from: Nexus on March 20, 2015, 05:44:03 PM

Quote from: saⱭ tooᗺ 2x on March 20, 2015, 05:42:57 PM

Quote from: Nexus on March 20, 2015, 05:42:00 PM

Quote from: saⱭ tooᗺ 2x on March 20, 2015, 05:40:29 PM

Quote from: Nexus on March 20, 2015, 05:36:11 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on March 20, 2015, 05:35:24 PM

Quote from: Nexus on March 20, 2015, 05:33:11 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on March 20, 2015, 05:31:55 PM

Quote from: Nexus on March 20, 2015, 05:28:58 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on March 20, 2015, 05:05:05 PM

Quote from: Nexus on March 20, 2015, 04:59:30 PM

Quote from: CK97 on March 20, 2015, 04:54:59 PM

Quote from: Nexus on March 20, 2015, 04:35:09 PM

Quote from: Tyger on March 20, 2015, 10:46:21 AM

We need laws to to stop people from making their own gun parts, because criminals have to follow the law.

Damn, I guess we should just do away with all laws because criminals will do them anyway. What's the point?

The point he's trying to make is that if you enforce a law that takes away the guns of law-abiding citizens, it's not gonna solve anything because criminals will have an easier time with performing a shooting.

Guns should be registered, handmade or not, so....

Why? Should we register, swords, knives, spears, bows, and crossbows too?

Because guns fire projectiles that can kill people? It seems like a good reason.

And how do the others not?

Some of the ones you listed aren't practical, and others have more broad terms than you realize.

They can all be used to kill people practically.

Tell me how a bow and spear is in anyway practical?

Ask any hunter who goes out for archery season. 
Also, see below. That'd do wonders to a crowd of people.

YouTube

Hunting isn't the same thing you fucking idiot.

I'm sorry, but do hunters not set out to kill a target?

But bows can be practical for the environment of hunting. You can't exactly just bow someone down on the streets at night.

But you can.

I'm pretty sure people would notice someone aiming a bow at them.

Does seeing someone aiming a gun at you stop them from shooting you?

No, but smaller handguns can make killing someone easier.

How small we talking?


If you're going for killing someone in particular, or even several people, a knife is easily just as concealable and can beat a handgun within 20 feet.

A non-throwing knife can't possibly kill someone from 20 feet away like a gun can.

YouTube

I bet that's one of the reasons why there's those law enforcement knives.   

As a center right libertarian, I tend to avoid discussion about guns, usually because I'm so conflicted as both pro gun and anti gun make really compelling cases for their argument, and the fact that I hold no interest in guns whatsoever.

If we can somehow register and prevent mentally unstable individuals from gaining access to firearms and do it without the inclusion of the state, we'd have a real solution there. It's a bit of a pipe dream though.

In other words, that if someone takes a gun to the range or carries it in public, the police have the right to check the firearm and take action if it doesn't comply with the law.

And they do.
If I take a homemade firearm to a range and it has  illegally made Class II components then I'm in deep shit if anyone asks about it, especially if that component happens to be an illegally produced auto sear.