Spoiler Game of Thrones (Ep8 Spoilers) Issue.

Onyx Sentinel · June 16, 2016, 10:26:23 AM

I just realized a plot hole. It's fact that Jon knows the white Walkers are coming, he's seen them and they need people for the War. With Brienne being in the same camp with jon and the Wildlings/Rangers it is likely she was told about the threat and how they need help. She goes all the way down to RiverRun where there are 3 ARMIES - Tully, Frey and Lannisters, hmm, what would be a good way to get the Lannisters to back down from the Siege, what would be a good way to get the Tullies to leave their Castle... If she had just mentioned that, I'm sure the Blackfish would of went with them and took his army, which Jamie even said they could leave, and I wouldn't be surprised if she managed to persuade Jamie as well. But no... This is actually annoying me now, the Writing has degraded lately.

MyNameIsCharlie · June 16, 2016, 10:29:30 AM

Not really. She's not in it to stop the walkers. Her sole focus is protecting Sansa. Her dialogue supported that focus.

BaconShelf · June 16, 2016, 10:29:58 AM

Yes, because three hostile militaries would just drop everything, travel across an entire continent to an envrionment they are hilariously unequipped to fight in (See: Nazi Germany + Russia. Then amplify the winter by ten and scale the army down by ten) to fight creatures which are considered little more than a childrens' bed time story on the word of some woman they have never met before and has claimed to serve both Stark and Lannister.

Pretty compelling evidence, if you ask me.

Onyx Sentinel · June 16, 2016, 10:31:32 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on June 16, 2016, 10:29:30 AM

Not really. She's not in it to stop the walkers. Her sole focus is protecting Sansa. Her dialogue supported that focus.

She's not in RiverRun to protect Sansa, sansa is nowhere near RiverRun... She is there on a mission to get the support of the Blackfish, which bringing up the White Walkers would be a definitive method.

MyNameIsCharlie · June 16, 2016, 10:32:46 AM

Quote from: Tsukuyomi Saber on June 16, 2016, 10:31:32 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on June 16, 2016, 10:29:30 AM
Not really. She's not in it to stop the walkers. Her sole focus is protecting Sansa. Her dialogue supported that focus.
She's not in RiverRun to protect Sansa, sansa is nowhere near RiverRun... She is there on a mission to get the support of the Blackfish, which bringing up the White Walkers would be a definitive method.

See the above post. That's how the conversation would have gone. It would have been bad writing if they did go that way

Onyx Sentinel · June 16, 2016, 10:35:02 AM

Quote from: BaconShelf on June 16, 2016, 10:29:58 AM

Yes, because three hostile militaries would just drop everything, travel across an entire continent to an envrionment they are hilariously unequipped to fight in (See: Nazi Germany + Russia. Then amplify the winter by ten and scale the army down by ten) to fight creatures which are considered little more than a childrens' bed time story on the word of some woman they have never met before and has claimed to serve both Stark and Lannister.

Pretty compelling evidence, if you ask me.

If their Commanders ordered them to do so, they would.
Brienne has a relationship with Jamie, they trust each other, he would believe her. - The only issue is whether or not he would drop everything, cause he wants to be back with Cersei. The Blackfish would agree, he would have a purpose.
The Blackfish and Jamie both believed her, so just because she served both Stark and Lannister would mean nothing.

Turkey · June 16, 2016, 10:36:20 AM

Nobody south of the Wall even believes white walkers exist; why would they care to drop what they're doing to fight a fairy tale?

Onyx Sentinel · June 16, 2016, 10:37:50 AM

Quote from: yekruTluftruH on June 16, 2016, 10:36:20 AM

Nobody south of the Wall even believes white walkers exist; why would they care to drop what they're doing to fight a fairy tale?

Ignorance much...
Jamie trusts Brienne, so if she said they exist, he would likely believe her, so would the Blackfish, as he later conceded to her, when he believed the letter from Sansa was legit.

BaconShelf · June 16, 2016, 10:42:04 AM

Quote from: Tsukuyomi Saber on June 16, 2016, 10:35:02 AM

Quote from: BaconShelf on June 16, 2016, 10:29:58 AM
Yes, because three hostile militaries would just drop everything, travel across an entire continent to an envrionment they are hilariously unequipped to fight in (See: Nazi Germany + Russia. Then amplify the winter by ten and scale the army down by ten) to fight creatures which are considered little more than a childrens' bed time story on the word of some woman they have never met before and has claimed to serve both Stark and Lannister.

Pretty compelling evidence, if you ask me.
If their Commanders ordered them to do so, they would.
Brienne has a relationship with Jamie, they trust each other, he would believe her. - The only issue is whether or not he would drop everything, cause he wants to be back with Cersei. The Blackfish would agree, he would have a purpose.
The Blackfish and Jamie both believed her, so just because she served both Stark and Lannister would mean nothing.

>Nobody believes the walkers exist
>It takes +3 months for an army to travel to the north
>probably more in the snow
>with hundreds dying to the weather
>the Knights of the Vale have Moat Cailin = no one going north
>Blackfish wouldn't leave his post to protect his niece because he was (rightly)skeptical she was even alive. I'm sure he'd march his entire army out of the gate to go fight fairy tales
>Jaime still answers to King Tommen, Cersei, Walder Frey and the other lords. If they decided they didn't like what he was doing, they'll just oust him.
>Southron armies can not fight in the winter. There has never been a succesful Southron invasion of the North for a reason.
>What evidence does Brienne have for the walkers? She's never even seen them herself. How could she convince two skepticists, one focused on winning back his family and honour and the other focused on not losing a fucking war, to believe in something they have no reason to believe exists?

I have stuff to do but I can easily provide more reasons as to why including this wouldn't even be worthy of dabid-tier writing. It's implausible as fuck.

MyNameIsCharlie · June 16, 2016, 10:43:26 AM

Jon Snow waited. The canfles above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There were wite walckers in the castle. He didn’t see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Cing Lanisser were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.
Jon was a nites wach for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the crows and he said to dad “I want to be on the wall daddy.”
Dad said “No! You will BE KILL BY Walckers”
There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the castle base of the Wall he knew there were walckers.
“This is lanisser” the runner crackered. “You must fight the walckers!”
So Jon gotted his dragon steal sword and blew up the wall.
“HE GOING TO KILL US” said the walckers
“I will stab at him” said the nite cing and he puled out teh ise sword. Jon stabbed at him and tried to kill him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill.
“No! I must kill the walckers” he shouted
The crow said “No, Jon. You are the walckers”
And then Jon was a zombie

Turkey · June 16, 2016, 10:45:18 AM

Quote from: Tsukuyomi Saber on June 16, 2016, 10:37:50 AM

Quote from: yekruTluftruH on June 16, 2016, 10:36:20 AM
Nobody south of the Wall even believes white walkers exist; why would they care to drop what they're doing to fight a fairy tale?
Ignorance much...
Jamie trusts Brienne, so if she said they exist, he would likely believe her, so would the Blackfish, as he later conceded to her, when he believed the letter from Sansa was legit.

Alliser Thorne marched a dead wight's hand down to King's Landing to prove it; Mormont and Snow begged every house in Westeros for men and aid. Nobody believes it. It's asinine to compare Jaime's belief that the letter is real to a claim that white walkers are bringing an army south of the wall when it's been so well established that nobody, especially southerners like the Lannisters, respect the Night's Watch as anything more than petty guards against wildlings.

Hell, Brienne herself probably doesn't believe in the white walkers.

Onyx Sentinel · June 16, 2016, 10:58:54 AM

Quote from: BaconShelf on June 16, 2016, 10:42:04 AM

Quote from: Tsukuyomi Saber on June 16, 2016, 10:35:02 AM
Quote from: BaconShelf on June 16, 2016, 10:29:58 AM
Yes, because three hostile militaries would just drop everything, travel across an entire continent to an envrionment they are hilariously unequipped to fight in (See: Nazi Germany + Russia. Then amplify the winter by ten and scale the army down by ten) to fight creatures which are considered little more than a childrens' bed time story on the word of some woman they have never met before and has claimed to serve both Stark and Lannister.

Pretty compelling evidence, if you ask me.
If their Commanders ordered them to do so, they would.
Brienne has a relationship with Jamie, they trust each other, he would believe her. - The only issue is whether or not he would drop everything, cause he wants to be back with Cersei. The Blackfish would agree, he would have a purpose.
The Blackfish and Jamie both believed her, so just because she served both Stark and Lannister would mean nothing.

>Nobody believes the walkers exist
>It takes +3 months for an army to travel to the north
>probably more in the snow
>with hundreds dying to the weather
>the Knights of the Vale have Moat Cailin = no one going north
>Blackfish wouldn't leave his post to protect his niece because he was (rightly)skeptical she was even alive. I'm sure he'd march his entire army out of the gate to go fight fairy tales
>Jaime still answers to King Tommen, Cersei, Walder Frey and the other lords. If they decided they didn't like what he was doing, they'll just oust him.
>Southron armies can not fight in the winter. There has never been a succesful Southron invasion of the North for a reason.
>What evidence does Brienne have for the walkers? She's never even seen them herself. How could she convince two skepticists, one focused on winning back his family and honour and the other focused on not losing a fucking war, to believe in something they have no reason to believe exists?

I have stuff to do but I can easily provide more reasons as to why including this wouldn't even be worthy of dabid-tier writing. It's implausible as fuck.

- Yes people are skeptical of White Walkers, ain't it convenient Brienne is friends with a Lannister Commander - Jamie, and gains the trust of the BlackFish - Another commander, the only reason Blackfish doesn't leave with Brienne is because he is sick of running, but if he had a reason...
- So what if it tales 3 months...
- Yes, soldiers do die when they travel on long journeys.
- This has nothing to do with the Vale.
- He said he wouldn't leave because he was sick of running, not because he was skeptical.
- Jamie only cares about Cersei, Brienee a bit, but doesn't give a shit about the King or anyone else.
- How would it be an invasion, it would be grouping up with an allied force, the Night's watch.
- Aside from the numerous ravens sent from Castle Black, well she could of brought a signed letter from Jon - Knight Commander - Jamie would believe her, on trust alone, but may not be interested = Cersei. But the Blackfish is just looking for a purpose, not running.

Desty · June 16, 2016, 11:02:41 AM

You're quite adamant on the Brienne-Jamie friendship thing

Onyx Sentinel · June 16, 2016, 11:04:24 AM

Quote from: yekruTluftruH on June 16, 2016, 10:45:18 AM

Quote from: Tsukuyomi Saber on June 16, 2016, 10:37:50 AM
Quote from: yekruTluftruH on June 16, 2016, 10:36:20 AM
Nobody south of the Wall even believes white walkers exist; why would they care to drop what they're doing to fight a fairy tale?
Ignorance much...
Jamie trusts Brienne, so if she said they exist, he would likely believe her, so would the Blackfish, as he later conceded to her, when he believed the letter from Sansa was legit.

Alliser Thorne marched a dead wight's hand down to King's Landing to prove it; Mormont and Snow begged every house in Westeros for men and aid. Nobody believes it. It's asinine to compare Jaime's belief that the letter is real to a claim that white walkers are bringing an army south of the wall when it's been so well established that nobody, especially southerners like the Lannisters, respect the Night's Watch as anything more than petty guards against wildlings.

Hell, Brienne herself probably doesn't believe in the white walkers.

Proof may not be necessary, Briene clearly has influence with Jamie, and If sansa asked her to get support from Jamie, whether or not Brienne was convinced of their existence, she would still act.

Onyx Sentinel · June 16, 2016, 11:09:16 AM

Quote from: Desty on June 16, 2016, 11:02:41 AM

You're quite adamant on the Brienne-Jamie friendship thing

Mr. Psychologist · June 16, 2016, 11:10:01 AM

Tbh anything that reduces the screentime of zyklon brienne is good, so more dialogue between her and half of the seven kingdoms is to be avoided.

Turkey · June 16, 2016, 11:11:37 AM

Quote from: Tsukuyomi Saber on June 16, 2016, 11:04:24 AM

If sansa asked her to get support from Jamie, whether or not Brienne was convinced of their existence, she would still act.

She didn't ask for support from the Lannisters, and she didn't send her on an errand to get an army to fight white walkers. Sansa just wants to retake Winterfell; as far as we know, she doesn't believe in them yet either.

Onyx Sentinel · June 16, 2016, 11:13:54 AM

Quote from: Mr. Psychologist on June 16, 2016, 11:10:01 AM

Tbh anything that reduces the screentime of zyklon brienne is good, so more dialogue between her and half of the seven kingdoms is to be avoided.

I'm not a fan of her character either.

Onyx Sentinel · June 16, 2016, 11:14:54 AM

Quote from: yekruTluftruH on June 16, 2016, 11:11:37 AM

Quote from: Tsukuyomi Saber on June 16, 2016, 11:04:24 AM
If sansa asked her to get support from Jamie, whether or not Brienne was convinced of their existence, she would still act.
as far as we know, she doesn't believe in them yet either.

That is a Counter that I can be content with.

maverick · June 16, 2016, 12:19:15 PM

Brynden's decision not to listen to Brienne and then get himself killed for nothing was stupid writing period.

They're clearly just trying to tie up loose ends so they can hurry up and end it.

Comet · June 16, 2016, 12:31:56 PM

Off screen deaths dont count. Blackfish got away.

Mattie G Indahouse · June 17, 2016, 04:10:49 AM

Quote from: Comet on June 16, 2016, 12:31:56 PM

Off screen deaths dont count. Blackfish got away.

Did he have armor and a big fucking sword?

Mattie G Indahouse · June 17, 2016, 04:11:28 AM

The biggest problem with this episode is that it kills all hope of Cat coming back.

A Cheese Potato · June 17, 2016, 04:36:53 AM

I don't understand when the Blackfish says Brienne will serve Sansa better. The Blackfish is well known so his name would have lent weight to their cause regardless of his actual fighting prowess. And I'm not saying he was right and Edmure was wrong at Riverrun, but I think it's weird that not one guy was on Brynden's side once Edmure came up to the gate

Mordo · June 17, 2016, 06:25:59 AM

The whole point of the series is humanity's ultimately flawed and squabbling nature. Nobody in Westeros sans the Nights Watch knows or even believes the threat of the WW, and even if they did, the political differences would make it practically impossible for the armies to unite.

Bad writing is Jaime, the Blackfish and Walder Frey magically setting aside their differences because an ogre woman (who doesn't have any proof mind you) told them ice zombies are coming.