No

No we can't.

Looks like shit, then again it's anime so that is to be expected.

Quote from: Verbatim on September 11, 2016, 07:56:33 PM

No

No we can't.

oh. I'm sure you've had to explain this plenty, but why do you dislike anime?

Because, without failure, they all fall into the same tired tropes that make every single one of them unwatchable.

If I hate x, y, and z tropes, you can try your best to find a show that doesn't have any of those tropes.

And when you do, it'll invariably contain a, b, and c tropes. Which I also hate.

Oh yeah, and "deconstructions" of anime tropes don't work for me.

The only way anime knows how to "deconstruct" its own tropes is by amplifying them to extremity (Kill la Kill, Panty & Stocking, One Punch Man, Me!Me!Me!), which is lazy, uncreative, boring, and almost as obnoxious as the tropes themselves.

I would probably rather watch a show about deconstructing deconstruction. Parodying parodies. But I like to think I have better uses of my time than watching a show that makes fun of shows that make fun of shows. Seems like a big waste.

Like, I already know what tropes I hate. I don't need a show to validate my outlook.

Berserk and Bokurano, though.

I didn't know Berserk was deconstruction, but isn't it known for being over-the-top violent or something?

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it seems to me that it's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

I don't know what Bokurano is.

Is Verb more of a manga man?

Not really. I like to tease Prime about reading manga, but I couldn't care less about it tbh. I own a manga based on Majora's Mask, and I've read and enjoyed it.

Casca also gets raped and gives birth to a demon baby...

ohhhh, he's trying to trick me

(NSFW obviously)

Oh yeah, and "deconstructions" of anime tropes don't work for me.

The only way anime knows how to "deconstruct" its own tropes is by amplifying them to extremity (Kill la Kill, Panty & Stocking, One Punch Man, Me!Me!Me!), which is lazy, uncreative, boring, and almost as obnoxious as the tropes themselves.

They do have a tendency to do that, now that I think about it. Are the quotes around 'deconstruct' implying that they don't deconstruct anime tropes?

In Mob Psycho, the shounen fight tropes are deconstructed primarily using anticlimax and explosive visuals (cue One Punch Man), but unlike One Punch Man rather than only using anticlimax to emphasize the ridiculous power of the protagonist comically and moving to the next gag, Mob Psycho spends more time contextualizing that power's effect on the side characters in the developing narrative.

A lot of anime is about spectacle and not necessarily nuanced substance behind it, relying primarily on the emotional affect of images over the ideas they can produce. The first time I watch an anime, I have difficulty thinking about it in detail, and I am more susceptible to the emotional affect the shows produce. It's only later I can (somewhat) coherently piece together why I like something and whether or not I think the intentions of the creators are cheap. I'm trying to improve my way of appraising media, but I'm still quite slow with it.

What problems do you have with something like Mushishi or Jin Roh? Do you also dislike Ghibli Films?

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:40:10 PM

Casca also gets raped and gives birth to a demon baby...

Casca herself, not the events surrounding her. She's a strong character with her own personality, and isn't just there for eye candy (since, y'know, she wears full body armor and not a string bikini or whatever).

She was also raped to move the plot forward.

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:48:19 PM

Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:46:25 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:40:10 PM

Casca also gets raped and gives birth to a demon baby...

Casca herself, not the events surrounding her. She's a strong character with her own personality, and isn't just there for eye candy (since, y'know, she wears full body armor and not a string bikini or whatever).

She was also raped to move the plot forward.

Yet still manages to be a strong character nonetheless.

I thought Verbatim would like that virtually all sex is portrayed negatively.

She gives birth to a rape baby, loses her memory, forgets guts and the love she had for him, and then becomes a non character. She's a fucking child afterward.

They do have a tendency to do that, now that I think about it. Are the quotes around 'deconstruct' implying that they don't deconstruct anime tropes?

They deconstruct anime tropes, but what I mean by the quotation marks is that, to me, all they end up doing is adding fuel to the fire. By criticizing and making a mockery of all these tropes, they're just fighting fire with fire--it's not like less trope-y anime are being made now that we have this parody out. It also doesn't help that lots of people don't even realize that shows like Kill La Kill are meant to be deconstructive.

Not that it matters, because like I said--shows like Kill La Kill do nothing to help the industry become less derivative. Maybe that's not what it's trying to do, but I think the only reason deconstruction should exist is to criticize industry practices and help stimulate some studio creativity.

In Mob Psycho, the shounen fight tropes are deconstructed primarily using anticlimax and explosive visuals (cue One Punch Man), but unlike One Punch Man rather than only using anticlimax to emphasize the ridiculous power of the protagonist comically and moving to the next gag, Mob Psycho spends more time contextualizing that power's effect on the side characters in the developing narrative.

That sounds a little better, but the over-the-top artstyle and spastic animation still turn me off like a motherfucker. It looks like I'd get migraines watching it.

What problems do you have with something like Mushishi or Jin Roh? Do you also dislike Ghibli Films?

I know nothing of the first two things you said. Ghibli films are tolerable, but to my understanding, they tend to make films with Western sensibilities in mind. Because they understand they have a huge market over here.

The last one I've seen is My Neighbor Totoro over a decade ago, though. There's also a fun game on PS1 called Jade Cocoon: Story of the Tamamayu which uses Studio Ghibli animation, but a show was never made.

The only anime I enjoyed was Baccano

but holy shit, did I enjoy Baccano. So clever and well-crafted.

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:55:27 PM

Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:53:47 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:48:19 PM

Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:46:25 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:40:10 PM

Casca also gets raped and gives birth to a demon baby...

Casca herself, not the events surrounding her. She's a strong character with her own personality, and isn't just there for eye candy (since, y'know, she wears full body armor and not a string bikini or whatever).

She was also raped to move the plot forward.

Yet still manages to be a strong character nonetheless.

I thought Verbatim would like that virtually all sex is portrayed negatively.

She gives birth to a rape baby, loses her memory, forgets guts and the love she had for him, and then becomes a non character. She's a fucking child afterward.

If Miura wanted fans to view her as a tragic figure fallen from glory he should have emphasized her regularly and with Guts, not pushed into the background and babysat by a less relevant character (Farmesse) for the majority of their adventures. Miura does have scenes of her and Guts, reminding fans that their relationship is still fragmented, but the story events take precedence for too long and their situation loses its immediacy. Casca can (probably) be healed by the fairy queen (smh) anyway.

Her life is ruined for plot. This is not how you respect your female characters.

Quote from: Arren on September 11, 2016, 10:07:13 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:55:27 PM

Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:53:47 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:48:19 PM

Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:46:25 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:40:10 PM

Casca also gets raped and gives birth to a demon baby...

Casca herself, not the events surrounding her. She's a strong character with her own personality, and isn't just there for eye candy (since, y'know, she wears full body armor and not a string bikini or whatever).

She was also raped to move the plot forward.

Yet still manages to be a strong character nonetheless.

I thought Verbatim would like that virtually all sex is portrayed negatively.

She gives birth to a rape baby, loses her memory, forgets guts and the love she had for him, and then becomes a non character. She's a fucking child afterward.

If Miura wanted fans to view her as a tragic figure fallen from glory he should have emphasized her regularly and with Guts, not pushed into the background and babysat by a less relevant character (Farmesse) for the majority of their adventures. Miura does have scenes of her and Guts, reminding fans that their relationship is still fragmented, but the story events take precedence for too long and their situation loses its immediacy. Casca can (probably) be healed by the fairy queen (smh) anyway.

Her life is ruined for plot. This is not how you respect your female characters.

I think Miura succeeded with eclipse in what he wanted to establish. It provides the reader with a clear sense of Guts' motives for vengeance, and we can empathize with him. I think Miura had enough for Guts to swear vengeance without Casca's rape, Considering Casca's worth to the story after eclipse events, it would make more sense in my mind for Casca to die there, it could establish the same sentiment without having the undertones of violating "another man's woman."