Total Members Voted: 15
"You can't build sand castles out of sand.You can't even create something as simple as molecules, how are you gonna make them interact with each other and form a sand castle?"^literally the level of stupidity Verbatim has reached
This is fallacious because you're assuming that "life" hasn't already existed for billions and billions of years. When life began, it was EXTRAORDINARILY simple. We're talking single-cell organisms here.
We can't even create something as simple as a single-celled organism. How are we going to make something as complex as a sentient robot?
If you're going to call my comparisons shit, when they're actually brilliant, you're not allowed to make shit comparisons yourself. This is just stupid. You can't compare Einstein's education with his parents, because his parents didn't have the same education. Duh. That's not even remotely a fair comparison.
Because you see no distinction between neurons and mechanical transmitters.
Quote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:10:27 PM"You can't build sand castles out of sand.You can't even create something as simple as molecules, how are you gonna make them interact with each other and form a sand castle?"^literally the level of stupidity Verbatim has reachedConsidering I said nothing like that, I'd say the retarded cunt who doesn't even know English is the stupid one here.
Correct, and the fact that such a thing was created out of non-living matter backs up my side of the argument, not yours.
Nature can do it, so can we.
Would you argue that I'm smarter and more capable than one of my ancestors from billions of years ago? Clearly, so it's absolutely possible to make something smarter than yourself over time. Evolution proves that.
The difference is complexity.
It's you, not we.
How would we know that the Governor actually feels things like love and pain and joy and isn't just secretly plotting a hostile takeover of the prison behind a well maintained facade?
Quote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:39:33 PMIt's you, not we.Are you going to say something intelligible, or are you just here to remind us that you're the dumbest user on the forum again?
Quote from: Verbatim on May 26, 2016, 01:45:32 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:39:33 PMIt's you, not we.Are you going to say something intelligible, or are you just here to remind us that you're the dumbest user on the forum again?How stupid are you? You keep saying "we don't know" but in actuality, the facts are that you don't know. You're never gonna admit something like that because you're arrogant as fuck. You are worthless to me. I can't gain anything from you anymore.
Except it doesn't, because despite those organisms' biological simplicity, we still haven't been able to replicate it after being consciously aware of them for centuries. Not one time. Not even close.
Yeah. By sexual reproduction.We don't even understand how THAT works, in terms of how it creates life. We have no idea.
In order to create life outside of sexual reproduction, you have to understand how that process even works first--and the thing is, we probably never will.
Well, "smart" is kind of a dumb word. A smarter person would recognize that you can't bundle everything about intelligence in one little word and use that as a blanket metric for "general" intelligence. In terms of your education, you have a better education than a caveman, yes. In terms of your capacity to learn, your IQ, and the size of your brain? You probably have a caveman beat. Probably.Thing is, that's not a great comparison, either, because you're moving the goalposts. If you're comparing relative intelligence from generation to generation, where you're adjusting for things like difference in education and average IQ for a given year, what reason do I have to believe that you're "smarter" than a caveman?
So how complex does it have to get for you to say, "Okay, that's a facsimile for life."
Quote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:48:44 PMQuote from: Verbatim on May 26, 2016, 01:45:32 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:39:33 PMIt's you, not we.Are you going to say something intelligible, or are you just here to remind us that you're the dumbest user on the forum again?How stupid are you? You keep saying "we don't know" but in actuality, the facts are that you don't know. You're never gonna admit something like that because you're arrogant as fuck. You are worthless to me. I can't gain anything from you anymore.Second option it is.
Quote from: 卐RIGHT WING DAS SQUAD卐 on May 26, 2016, 01:44:20 PMHow would we know that the Governor actually feels things like love and pain and joy and isn't just secretly plotting a hostile takeover of the prison behind a well maintained facade?This applies to humans as well
Quote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:46:21 PMQuote from: 卐RIGHT WING DAS SQUAD卐 on May 26, 2016, 01:44:20 PMHow would we know that the Governor actually feels things like love and pain and joy and isn't just secretly plotting a hostile takeover of the prison behind a well maintained facade?This applies to humans as wellWhat if the Russians capture and reprogram the robot to kill us all?
Quote from: 卐RIGHT WING DAS SQUAD卐 on May 26, 2016, 01:55:05 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:46:21 PMQuote from: 卐RIGHT WING DAS SQUAD卐 on May 26, 2016, 01:44:20 PMHow would we know that the Governor actually feels things like love and pain and joy and isn't just secretly plotting a hostile takeover of the prison behind a well maintained facade?This applies to humans as wellWhat if the Russians capture and reprogram the robot to kill us all?What do the references mean, Mason?
Quote from: Verbatim on May 26, 2016, 01:50:08 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:48:44 PMQuote from: Verbatim on May 26, 2016, 01:45:32 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:39:33 PMIt's you, not we.Are you going to say something intelligible, or are you just here to remind us that you're the dumbest user on the forum again?How stupid are you? You keep saying "we don't know" but in actuality, the facts are that you don't know. You're never gonna admit something like that because you're arrogant as fuck. You are worthless to me. I can't gain anything from you anymore.Second option it is.It is the second option; it also is the first one. You know that, but you justhave to get in a jab whenever you can.How about you stop being immature and fuck off or grow up? How old are you again? Answering with above 16 is cause for alarm.
Quote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:53:27 PMQuote from: Verbatim on May 26, 2016, 01:50:08 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:48:44 PMQuote from: Verbatim on May 26, 2016, 01:45:32 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:39:33 PMIt's you, not we.Are you going to say something intelligible, or are you just here to remind us that you're the dumbest user on the forum again?How stupid are you? You keep saying "we don't know" but in actuality, the facts are that you don't know. You're never gonna admit something like that because you're arrogant as fuck. You are worthless to me. I can't gain anything from you anymore.Second option it is.It is the second option; it also is the first one. You know that, but you justhave to get in a jab whenever you can.How about you stop being immature and fuck off or grow up? How old are you again? Answering with above 16 is cause for alarm.Pure savagery
Quote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:55:55 PMQuote from: 卐RIGHT WING DAS SQUAD卐 on May 26, 2016, 01:55:05 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:46:21 PMQuote from: 卐RIGHT WING DAS SQUAD卐 on May 26, 2016, 01:44:20 PMHow would we know that the Governor actually feels things like love and pain and joy and isn't just secretly plotting a hostile takeover of the prison behind a well maintained facade?This applies to humans as wellWhat if the Russians capture and reprogram the robot to kill us all?What do the references mean, Mason?Okay, what if someone steals the robot for the Israelis who use it to cause a nuclear disaster on American soil that the Russians are blamed for and sink an aircraft carrier in retaliation so we begin to countdown to a state of nuclear war and the only guy who can save us is the young CIA agent who accidentally stole the robot for the Israelis in the first place?
Quote from: Dietrich Six on May 26, 2016, 02:01:28 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:53:27 PMQuote from: Verbatim on May 26, 2016, 01:50:08 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:48:44 PMQuote from: Verbatim on May 26, 2016, 01:45:32 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:39:33 PMIt's you, not we.Are you going to say something intelligible, or are you just here to remind us that you're the dumbest user on the forum again?How stupid are you? You keep saying "we don't know" but in actuality, the facts are that you don't know. You're never gonna admit something like that because you're arrogant as fuck. You are worthless to me. I can't gain anything from you anymore.Second option it is.It is the second option; it also is the first one. You know that, but you justhave to get in a jab whenever you can.How about you stop being immature and fuck off or grow up? How old are you again? Answering with above 16 is cause for alarm.Pure savageryIt was actually pretty limp and impotent, as most of his posts tend to be.
Quote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 12:23:36 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 12:09:32 PMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:58:37 AMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 11:52:03 AMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:47:30 AMQuote from: ❗️Pip❗️ on May 26, 2016, 11:42:47 AMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:41:14 AMOf courseThere is nothing special about an organic brain that cannot be replicated by a sufficiently advanced synthetic one.Emotions, Desires, Thoughts, Fears are all a result of internal and external 'programming', either in the form of your biology (genetics/hormonal levels) or your learning.If you make a program that can learn new things, you are already on par with most organic life. If you make a program that can rationalise a decision, you've surpassed all non-sentient life. If you make a robot that can do all that and have laser eyes, we have no need for meatbags anymore.You're just waiting for someone to create your new brotherI already have four, I'd rather have a robotic sonHow do neurons communicate? Some sources say through neurotransmitters being sent and picked up between neurons, but then there's the electric-impulses-stuff. Can you clear this up for me?Yeah, we've been doing this in a lot of detail recently.So take a dopaminergic neuron for exampleYou have the presynaptic nerve and the post synaptic nerve, the bit between the two nerve endings is the synaptic gap. When an action potential reaches the presynaptic nerve, this triggers the release of neurotransmitters like Dopamine into the synaptic gap. The dopamine then binds to the receptors on the post-synaptic nerve and if sufficient dopamine are bound to it then this generates a new action potential in the second neuron.The action potential is the electrical bit and the dopamine in the neurotransmitter. The electrical charge for the action potential comes from the transfer of energy from ionized molecules (iirc) like Sodium Na+ or Potassium K+ which is why deficiency of those two is particularly bad for a person's neurological health.Hope that makes sense.So, our post-synaptic neurons have a default setting, like Oxytocin, and the "action potential" stimulates this setting? The neurotransmitter is the binding factor that determines the capability of that neuron. The action potential then is an action or smell. Once we do something or hear something for the first time action potential occurs and a neurotransmitter is selected by one cell to bind with another cell (among a cluster of other cells). When we perform the action, or hear the same sound again the eletrical impulses are sent through those neurons again, and the neurotransmitter's effect happens without the need of any configurations since the setting is already set. Serotonin won't be able to pass through this cell unless the simulation of it forces a new setting to be added.^that's my understanding of what you said and then someEr not quite but not wrongPost-synaptic neurons have receptors on them, that neurotransmitters bind to. A bit like enzymes and their target molecule, lock and key model. The action potential is the electrical impulse, this is generated in response to something i.e sensory stimuli or by neurotransmission. The AP then moves along the neuron to trigger the release of neurotransmitters at the presynaptic nerve.As for the origin of an action potential, I can't quite remember where it comes from it other than the electrical charge comes from ions and a chemical reaction.Yeah, I actually found out about the hole you just filled in before posting, but I wasn't bothered to figure out a way to fill it in, so I just left it. My theory didn't make 100% sense, but the updated version kinda doesThanks for explaining.
Quote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 12:09:32 PMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:58:37 AMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 11:52:03 AMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:47:30 AMQuote from: ❗️Pip❗️ on May 26, 2016, 11:42:47 AMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:41:14 AMOf courseThere is nothing special about an organic brain that cannot be replicated by a sufficiently advanced synthetic one.Emotions, Desires, Thoughts, Fears are all a result of internal and external 'programming', either in the form of your biology (genetics/hormonal levels) or your learning.If you make a program that can learn new things, you are already on par with most organic life. If you make a program that can rationalise a decision, you've surpassed all non-sentient life. If you make a robot that can do all that and have laser eyes, we have no need for meatbags anymore.You're just waiting for someone to create your new brotherI already have four, I'd rather have a robotic sonHow do neurons communicate? Some sources say through neurotransmitters being sent and picked up between neurons, but then there's the electric-impulses-stuff. Can you clear this up for me?Yeah, we've been doing this in a lot of detail recently.So take a dopaminergic neuron for exampleYou have the presynaptic nerve and the post synaptic nerve, the bit between the two nerve endings is the synaptic gap. When an action potential reaches the presynaptic nerve, this triggers the release of neurotransmitters like Dopamine into the synaptic gap. The dopamine then binds to the receptors on the post-synaptic nerve and if sufficient dopamine are bound to it then this generates a new action potential in the second neuron.The action potential is the electrical bit and the dopamine in the neurotransmitter. The electrical charge for the action potential comes from the transfer of energy from ionized molecules (iirc) like Sodium Na+ or Potassium K+ which is why deficiency of those two is particularly bad for a person's neurological health.Hope that makes sense.So, our post-synaptic neurons have a default setting, like Oxytocin, and the "action potential" stimulates this setting? The neurotransmitter is the binding factor that determines the capability of that neuron. The action potential then is an action or smell. Once we do something or hear something for the first time action potential occurs and a neurotransmitter is selected by one cell to bind with another cell (among a cluster of other cells). When we perform the action, or hear the same sound again the eletrical impulses are sent through those neurons again, and the neurotransmitter's effect happens without the need of any configurations since the setting is already set. Serotonin won't be able to pass through this cell unless the simulation of it forces a new setting to be added.^that's my understanding of what you said and then someEr not quite but not wrongPost-synaptic neurons have receptors on them, that neurotransmitters bind to. A bit like enzymes and their target molecule, lock and key model. The action potential is the electrical impulse, this is generated in response to something i.e sensory stimuli or by neurotransmission. The AP then moves along the neuron to trigger the release of neurotransmitters at the presynaptic nerve.As for the origin of an action potential, I can't quite remember where it comes from it other than the electrical charge comes from ions and a chemical reaction.
Quote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:58:37 AMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 11:52:03 AMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:47:30 AMQuote from: ❗️Pip❗️ on May 26, 2016, 11:42:47 AMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:41:14 AMOf courseThere is nothing special about an organic brain that cannot be replicated by a sufficiently advanced synthetic one.Emotions, Desires, Thoughts, Fears are all a result of internal and external 'programming', either in the form of your biology (genetics/hormonal levels) or your learning.If you make a program that can learn new things, you are already on par with most organic life. If you make a program that can rationalise a decision, you've surpassed all non-sentient life. If you make a robot that can do all that and have laser eyes, we have no need for meatbags anymore.You're just waiting for someone to create your new brotherI already have four, I'd rather have a robotic sonHow do neurons communicate? Some sources say through neurotransmitters being sent and picked up between neurons, but then there's the electric-impulses-stuff. Can you clear this up for me?Yeah, we've been doing this in a lot of detail recently.So take a dopaminergic neuron for exampleYou have the presynaptic nerve and the post synaptic nerve, the bit between the two nerve endings is the synaptic gap. When an action potential reaches the presynaptic nerve, this triggers the release of neurotransmitters like Dopamine into the synaptic gap. The dopamine then binds to the receptors on the post-synaptic nerve and if sufficient dopamine are bound to it then this generates a new action potential in the second neuron.The action potential is the electrical bit and the dopamine in the neurotransmitter. The electrical charge for the action potential comes from the transfer of energy from ionized molecules (iirc) like Sodium Na+ or Potassium K+ which is why deficiency of those two is particularly bad for a person's neurological health.Hope that makes sense.So, our post-synaptic neurons have a default setting, like Oxytocin, and the "action potential" stimulates this setting? The neurotransmitter is the binding factor that determines the capability of that neuron. The action potential then is an action or smell. Once we do something or hear something for the first time action potential occurs and a neurotransmitter is selected by one cell to bind with another cell (among a cluster of other cells). When we perform the action, or hear the same sound again the eletrical impulses are sent through those neurons again, and the neurotransmitter's effect happens without the need of any configurations since the setting is already set. Serotonin won't be able to pass through this cell unless the simulation of it forces a new setting to be added.^that's my understanding of what you said and then some
Quote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 11:52:03 AMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:47:30 AMQuote from: ❗️Pip❗️ on May 26, 2016, 11:42:47 AMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:41:14 AMOf courseThere is nothing special about an organic brain that cannot be replicated by a sufficiently advanced synthetic one.Emotions, Desires, Thoughts, Fears are all a result of internal and external 'programming', either in the form of your biology (genetics/hormonal levels) or your learning.If you make a program that can learn new things, you are already on par with most organic life. If you make a program that can rationalise a decision, you've surpassed all non-sentient life. If you make a robot that can do all that and have laser eyes, we have no need for meatbags anymore.You're just waiting for someone to create your new brotherI already have four, I'd rather have a robotic sonHow do neurons communicate? Some sources say through neurotransmitters being sent and picked up between neurons, but then there's the electric-impulses-stuff. Can you clear this up for me?Yeah, we've been doing this in a lot of detail recently.So take a dopaminergic neuron for exampleYou have the presynaptic nerve and the post synaptic nerve, the bit between the two nerve endings is the synaptic gap. When an action potential reaches the presynaptic nerve, this triggers the release of neurotransmitters like Dopamine into the synaptic gap. The dopamine then binds to the receptors on the post-synaptic nerve and if sufficient dopamine are bound to it then this generates a new action potential in the second neuron.The action potential is the electrical bit and the dopamine in the neurotransmitter. The electrical charge for the action potential comes from the transfer of energy from ionized molecules (iirc) like Sodium Na+ or Potassium K+ which is why deficiency of those two is particularly bad for a person's neurological health.Hope that makes sense.
Quote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:47:30 AMQuote from: ❗️Pip❗️ on May 26, 2016, 11:42:47 AMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:41:14 AMOf courseThere is nothing special about an organic brain that cannot be replicated by a sufficiently advanced synthetic one.Emotions, Desires, Thoughts, Fears are all a result of internal and external 'programming', either in the form of your biology (genetics/hormonal levels) or your learning.If you make a program that can learn new things, you are already on par with most organic life. If you make a program that can rationalise a decision, you've surpassed all non-sentient life. If you make a robot that can do all that and have laser eyes, we have no need for meatbags anymore.You're just waiting for someone to create your new brotherI already have four, I'd rather have a robotic sonHow do neurons communicate? Some sources say through neurotransmitters being sent and picked up between neurons, but then there's the electric-impulses-stuff. Can you clear this up for me?
Quote from: ❗️Pip❗️ on May 26, 2016, 11:42:47 AMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:41:14 AMOf courseThere is nothing special about an organic brain that cannot be replicated by a sufficiently advanced synthetic one.Emotions, Desires, Thoughts, Fears are all a result of internal and external 'programming', either in the form of your biology (genetics/hormonal levels) or your learning.If you make a program that can learn new things, you are already on par with most organic life. If you make a program that can rationalise a decision, you've surpassed all non-sentient life. If you make a robot that can do all that and have laser eyes, we have no need for meatbags anymore.You're just waiting for someone to create your new brotherI already have four, I'd rather have a robotic son
Quote from: Mr. Psychologist on May 26, 2016, 11:41:14 AMOf courseThere is nothing special about an organic brain that cannot be replicated by a sufficiently advanced synthetic one.Emotions, Desires, Thoughts, Fears are all a result of internal and external 'programming', either in the form of your biology (genetics/hormonal levels) or your learning.If you make a program that can learn new things, you are already on par with most organic life. If you make a program that can rationalise a decision, you've surpassed all non-sentient life. If you make a robot that can do all that and have laser eyes, we have no need for meatbags anymore.You're just waiting for someone to create your new brother
Of courseThere is nothing special about an organic brain that cannot be replicated by a sufficiently advanced synthetic one.Emotions, Desires, Thoughts, Fears are all a result of internal and external 'programming', either in the form of your biology (genetics/hormonal levels) or your learning.If you make a program that can learn new things, you are already on par with most organic life. If you make a program that can rationalise a decision, you've surpassed all non-sentient life. If you make a robot that can do all that and have laser eyes, we have no need for meatbags anymore.
Quote from: Verbatim on May 26, 2016, 02:03:05 PMQuote from: Dietrich Six on May 26, 2016, 02:01:28 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:53:27 PMQuote from: Verbatim on May 26, 2016, 01:50:08 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:48:44 PMQuote from: Verbatim on May 26, 2016, 01:45:32 PMQuote from: Desty on May 26, 2016, 01:39:33 PMIt's you, not we.Are you going to say something intelligible, or are you just here to remind us that you're the dumbest user on the forum again?How stupid are you? You keep saying "we don't know" but in actuality, the facts are that you don't know. You're never gonna admit something like that because you're arrogant as fuck. You are worthless to me. I can't gain anything from you anymore.Second option it is.It is the second option; it also is the first one. You know that, but you justhave to get in a jab whenever you can.How about you stop being immature and fuck off or grow up? How old are you again? Answering with above 16 is cause for alarm.Pure savageryIt was actually pretty limp and impotent, as most of his posts tend to be.We don't think so. We've established that I was the one who performed acts of pure savagery.
the one true God is Doctor Doom and we should all be worshiping him.
Sure, just less...fleshy, and disgusting. Wire and circuitry in place of nerve and synapse, and all that. Once they can learn and grow on their own, they meet every relevant qualification.After that we can move on to making organic machinery, and perhaps in time human life and machine life will be indistinguishable. In that case, would we really be human, and would they really be machine, if we were one in the same?
Quote from: Caped Baldy on May 26, 2016, 03:22:10 PMSure, just less...fleshy, and disgusting. Wire and circuitry in place of nerve and synapse, and all that. Once they can learn and grow on their own, they meet every relevant qualification.After that we can move on to making organic machinery, and perhaps in time human life and machine life will be indistinguishable. In that case, would we really be human, and would they really be machine, if we were one in the same?BroYou know what that means? Green ending canon. Robot plants.ROBOTPLANTS
If you make a program that can learn new things, you are already on par with most organic life. If you make a program that can rationalise a decision, you've surpassed all non-sentient life. If you make a robot that can do all that and have laser eyes, we have no need for meatbags anymore.
I don't know for certain, but I personally like to think it's possible. If something achieves the same amount of neurological complexity as a living organism... Why does it matter what it's made of? Like others have said, you'd say "Well, they're just machines," but so are humans, we're just made of different things than what we'd call a "Robot." But the problem with this concept is that you'd never actually be able to prove the sentience of a non-biological organism, so I feel like there'd always be some people who doubted if they were conscious. But yeah, It think it may be an interesting possibility.
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Can Robots Ever Become Life?