Because some people here know more about guns than me

BaconShelf · December 02, 2014, 05:30:56 PM

Just need help with something.

In my universe the classification for ammo (ballistics) is as follows;

SMG/ pistol - 8.00x69 round

AR, BR, DMR, Carbine- 12.7x33 round

Snipers, DMR, LMG, HMG- 12.7x99 round (As I understand, this is close enough a .50 round)

Anyway, I know that a 7.62/5.56 is a large/ small rifle round (respectively) and that for a pistol to fire a 8.00 round it must be far bigger. In my futuristic timeline, guns and caliber are up scaled to counter thicker armour and shields (Energy weapons and mass drivers exist, just that they're highly prohibited and expensive compared to the abundance, easy to make and cheap ballistics) so that they're more effective. Do these seem decent as rounds for the various guns?

If it helps, I have a specialised pistol that fires a .50 round and a round that is fitted with dozens of nano explosives. Standard 5.56 and 7.62 rounds are used by police forces and are te types available to civilians, though the Nanoplaye and Arvaplate armour in use by the military is more or less immune to this kind of caliber.

The Lord Slide Rule · December 02, 2014, 06:15:28 PM

Just for reference, the first number in the NATO nomenclature refers to the bore diameter and the second number refers to the over all cartridge length in millimeters.

For example the 5.56x45mm used by most modern service rifles the bore diameter is 5.56mm and the overall length of the cartridge is 45mm.

For an idea of the size.

DAS B00T x2 · December 02, 2014, 06:19:45 PM

>AR's firing 50AE

Jesus, that must destroy your shoulder.

The Lord Slide Rule · December 02, 2014, 06:21:01 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:19:45 PM

>AR's firing 50AE

Jesus, that must destroy your shoulder.

What kind of hand gun shoots a 69 mm cartridge?

Juuzou · December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM

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Assassin 11D7 · December 02, 2014, 06:25:41 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:19:45 PM

>AR's firing 50AE

Jesus, that must destroy your shoulder.

YouTube

Yeah, but dat fitty cal.

TheOneTrueDesticle · December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM

Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM

I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.

Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?

Juuzou · December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

DAS B00T x2 · December 02, 2014, 06:28:08 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:25:41 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:19:45 PM
>AR's firing 50AE

Jesus, that must destroy your shoulder.
YouTube

Yeah, but dat fitty cal.

Yeah but dat energy drop

TheOneTrueDesticle · December 02, 2014, 06:29:00 PM

Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM

Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.
Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?
He is creating a sci-fi universe for a story he is writing.

Huh.

To the OP: 8x69mm for an SMG is not very believable.

Additionally, both the AR and Sniper are using what is essentially a .50cal slug (the only difference between the two you mentioned are the cartridge length) which is pretty fucking ridiculous.

Erives · December 02, 2014, 06:29:45 PM

I wanted to help but I started seeing what you needed and I really ant help.

DAS B00T x2 · December 02, 2014, 06:30:17 PM

Quote from: SexyPiranha on December 02, 2014, 06:21:01 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:19:45 PM
>AR's firing 50AE

Jesus, that must destroy your shoulder.
What kind of hand gun shoots a 69 mm cartridge?

Oh yeah...
OP, why is your pistol ammo longer than your rifle purposed rounds?

TheOneTrueDesticle · December 02, 2014, 06:32:53 PM

Quote from: BaconShelf on December 02, 2014, 05:30:56 PM

Anyway, I know that a 7.62/5.56 is a large/ small rifle round (respectively) and that for a pistol to fire a 8.00 round it must be far bigger.

One of the most common pistol calibers is 9mm. A very small pistol could use 8mm ammo but the length is the problem with your 8x69mm cartridge. If the cartridge* is nearly 7 centimetres long then how will it fit inside the pistol grip? The 9x19mm used in many firearms is just under two centimetres long.

Essentially, your pistols would look like this:

The Lord Slide Rule · December 02, 2014, 06:33:08 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:28:08 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:25:41 PM
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:19:45 PM
>AR's firing 50AE

Jesus, that must destroy your shoulder.
#Invalid YouTube Link#
Yeah, but dat fitty cal.
Yeah but dat energy drop

YouTube

What is practicality?

Assassin 11D7 · December 02, 2014, 06:34:58 PM

Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:29:00 PM

Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.
Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?
He is creating a sci-fi universe for a story he is writing.
Huh.

To the OP: 8x69mm for an SMG is not very believable.

Additionally, both the AR and Sniper are using what is essentially a .50cal slug (the only difference between the two you mentioned are the cartridge length) which is pretty fucking ridiculous.

If they're decked out in some big kick ass armor, then it's believable. It is a Sci-Fi universe. And in WH40k Space Marines use 19.05mm projectiles for their standard rifles.

The Lord Slide Rule · December 02, 2014, 06:36:27 PM

I suppose he could pull a 40k and have the mag fit and feed in front of the trigger guard, that would be unwieldy as fuck.

The Lord Slide Rule · December 02, 2014, 06:38:32 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:34:58 PM

Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.
Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?
He is creating a sci-fi universe for a story he is writing.
Huh.

To the OP: 8x69mm for an SMG is not very believable.

Additionally, both the AR and Sniper are using what is essentially a .50cal slug (the only difference between the two you mentioned are the cartridge length) which is pretty fucking ridiculous.
If they're decked out in some big kick ass armor, then it's believable. It is a Sci-Fi universe. And in WH40k Space Marines use 19.05mm projectiles for their standard rifles.

if his standard soldiers are decked out in power armor a really fucking huge cartridge could work, but otherwise nope.

TheOneTrueDesticle · December 02, 2014, 06:41:10 PM

Quote from: SexyPiranha on December 02, 2014, 06:38:32 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.
Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?
He is creating a sci-fi universe for a story he is writing.
Huh.

To the OP: 8x69mm for an SMG is not very believable.

Additionally, both the AR and Sniper are using what is essentially a .50cal slug (the only difference between the two you mentioned are the cartridge length) which is pretty fucking ridiculous.
If they're decked out in some big kick ass armor, then it's believable. It is a Sci-Fi universe. And in WH40k Space Marines use 19.05mm projectiles for their standard rifles.
if his standard soldiers are decked out in power armor a really fucking huge cartridge could work, but otherwise nope.

They'd still have to have super long fingers/palms to brandish such a monstrosity. And if you're in power armor, why the hell are you using a pistol?

DAS B00T x2 · December 02, 2014, 06:41:22 PM

Quote from: SexyPiranha on December 02, 2014, 06:15:28 PM

Just for reference, the first number in the NATO nomenclature refers to the bore diameter and the second number refers to the over all cartridge length in millimeters.

For example the 5.56x45mm used by most modern service rifles the bore diameter is 5.56mm and the overall length of the cartridge is 45mm.

For an idea of the size.

Nitpicking here, but it's the case length, not the full cartridge.

DAS B00T x2 · December 02, 2014, 06:42:45 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:34:58 PM

Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.
Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?
He is creating a sci-fi universe for a story he is writing.
Huh.

To the OP: 8x69mm for an SMG is not very believable.

Additionally, both the AR and Sniper are using what is essentially a .50cal slug (the only difference between the two you mentioned are the cartridge length) which is pretty fucking ridiculous.
If they're decked out in some big kick ass armor, then it's believable. It is a Sci-Fi universe. And in WH40k Space Marines use 19.05mm projectiles for their standard rifles.

Yeah, but nothing in 40k is supposed to be practical or even remotely believable.

The Lord Slide Rule · December 02, 2014, 06:45:28 PM

Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:41:10 PM

Quote from: SexyPiranha on December 02, 2014, 06:38:32 PM
Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.
Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?
He is creating a sci-fi universe for a story he is writing.
Huh.

To the OP: 8x69mm for an SMG is not very believable.

Additionally, both the AR and Sniper are using what is essentially a .50cal slug (the only difference between the two you mentioned are the cartridge length) which is pretty fucking ridiculous.
If they're decked out in some big kick ass armor, then it's believable. It is a Sci-Fi universe. And in WH40k Space Marines use 19.05mm projectiles for their standard rifles.
if his standard soldiers are decked out in power armor a really fucking huge cartridge could work, but otherwise nope.
They'd still have to have super long fingers/palms to brandish such a monstrosity. And if you're in power armor, why the hell are you using a pistol?

I was mainly talking about service rifles. I don't think that tiny bore diameter on the handgun justifies the crazy cartridge length. Unless of course you want some insane ballistics.

Assassin 11D7 · December 02, 2014, 06:46:38 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:42:45 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.
Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?
He is creating a sci-fi universe for a story he is writing.
Huh.

To the OP: 8x69mm for an SMG is not very believable.

Additionally, both the AR and Sniper are using what is essentially a .50cal slug (the only difference between the two you mentioned are the cartridge length) which is pretty fucking ridiculous.
If they're decked out in some big kick ass armor, then it's believable. It is a Sci-Fi universe. And in WH40k Space Marines use 19.05mm projectiles for their standard rifles.
Yeah, but nothing in 40k is supposed to be practical or even remotely believable.

I can dream, okay?

TheOneTrueDesticle · December 02, 2014, 06:47:00 PM

Quote from: SexyPiranha on December 02, 2014, 06:45:28 PM

Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:41:10 PM
Quote from: SexyPiranha on December 02, 2014, 06:38:32 PM
Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.
Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?
He is creating a sci-fi universe for a story he is writing.
Huh.

To the OP: 8x69mm for an SMG is not very believable.

Additionally, both the AR and Sniper are using what is essentially a .50cal slug (the only difference between the two you mentioned are the cartridge length) which is pretty fucking ridiculous.
If they're decked out in some big kick ass armor, then it's believable. It is a Sci-Fi universe. And in WH40k Space Marines use 19.05mm projectiles for their standard rifles.
if his standard soldiers are decked out in power armor a really fucking huge cartridge could work, but otherwise nope.
They'd still have to have super long fingers/palms to brandish such a monstrosity. And if you're in power armor, why the hell are you using a pistol?
I was mainly talking about service rifles. I don't think that tiny bore diameter on the handgun justifies the crazy cartridge length. Unless of course you want some insane ballistics.

No offense to the OP but these cartridge specifications are clearly the work of someone who doesn't understand how guns work that well.

The Lord Slide Rule · December 02, 2014, 06:47:06 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:41:22 PM

Quote from: SexyPiranha on December 02, 2014, 06:15:28 PM
Just for reference, the first number in the NATO nomenclature refers to the bore diameter and the second number refers to the over all cartridge length in millimeters.

For example the 5.56x45mm used by most modern service rifles the bore diameter is 5.56mm and the overall length of the cartridge is 45mm.

For an idea of the size.
Nitpicking here, but it's the case length, not the full cartridge.

im dumd

TheOneTrueDesticle · December 02, 2014, 06:56:43 PM

Quote from: BaconShelf on December 02, 2014, 05:30:56 PM

though the Nanoplaye and Arvaplate armour in use by the military is more or less immune to this kind of caliber.

I once had an idea for a sci-fi universe where the armor is so advanced that you have to use anti-tank munitions to damage them.

Think like the Lahti but a lot more modernized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39). A giant-ass man-portable 20mm cannon. I also like Titanfall's depiction of an even larger 40mm weapon (http://bit.ly/1Bbf6Xx) although this weapon is being carried by a mech rather than someone wearing powered armor.

If everyone is in crazy strong powered exoskeletons, one soldier being able to wield these weapons doesn't seem too far-fetched in my mind.

The Lord Slide Rule · December 02, 2014, 07:20:52 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:46:38 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:42:45 PM
Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.
Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?
He is creating a sci-fi universe for a story he is writing.
Huh.

To the OP: 8x69mm for an SMG is not very believable.

Additionally, both the AR and Sniper are using what is essentially a .50cal slug (the only difference between the two you mentioned are the cartridge length) which is pretty fucking ridiculous.
If they're decked out in some big kick ass armor, then it's believable. It is a Sci-Fi universe. And in WH40k Space Marines use 19.05mm projectiles for their standard rifles.
Yeah, but nothing in 40k is supposed to be practical or even remotely believable.
I can dream, okay?

Actually this would cut down on recoil as the round picks up speed as it travels and doesn't have to have all it's energy imparted to it instantaneously. Potentially allowing an unassisted man to fire larger rounds. Design was found lacking but who knows, future developments could see a reevaluation. Definitely not for close quarters though.

But face it, at this point we're just talking about babyrockets, why not go balls deep and hand the dudes full auto rpgs.

Assassin 11D7 · December 02, 2014, 07:36:45 PM

Quote from: SexyPiranha on December 02, 2014, 07:20:52 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:46:38 PM
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:42:45 PM
Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.
Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?
He is creating a sci-fi universe for a story he is writing.
Huh.

To the OP: 8x69mm for an SMG is not very believable.

Additionally, both the AR and Sniper are using what is essentially a .50cal slug (the only difference between the two you mentioned are the cartridge length) which is pretty fucking ridiculous.
If they're decked out in some big kick ass armor, then it's believable. It is a Sci-Fi universe. And in WH40k Space Marines use 19.05mm projectiles for their standard rifles.
Yeah, but nothing in 40k is supposed to be practical or even remotely believable.
I can dream, okay?
Actually this would cut down on recoil as the round picks up speed as it travels and doesn't have to have all it's energy imparted to it instantaneously. Potentially allowing an unassisted man to fire larger rounds. Design was found lacking but who knows, future developments could see a reevaluation. Definitely not for close quarters though.

I never thought about that, but now it makes me like the design more. Other than not working at close ranges without a change like having a charge propel it before the rocket fires, what other problems were there? I like guns, but being young and never having any hasn't made me very knowledgeable on the subject.

Quote

But face it, at this point we're just talking about babyrockets, why not go balls deep and hand the dudes full auto rpgs.

Because last time I got interested in this subject I found out that the Geneva convention banned explosive bullets. So, it would seem no.

The Lord Slide Rule · December 02, 2014, 07:45:09 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 07:36:45 PM

Quote from: SexyPiranha on December 02, 2014, 07:20:52 PM
Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:46:38 PM
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:42:45 PM
Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.
Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?
He is creating a sci-fi universe for a story he is writing.
Huh.

To the OP: 8x69mm for an SMG is not very believable.

Additionally, both the AR and Sniper are using what is essentially a .50cal slug (the only difference between the two you mentioned are the cartridge length) which is pretty fucking ridiculous.
If they're decked out in some big kick ass armor, then it's believable. It is a Sci-Fi universe. And in WH40k Space Marines use 19.05mm projectiles for their standard rifles.
Yeah, but nothing in 40k is supposed to be practical or even remotely believable.
I can dream, okay?
Actually this would cut down on recoil as the round picks up speed as it travels and doesn't have to have all it's energy imparted to it instantaneously. Potentially allowing an unassisted man to fire larger rounds. Design was found lacking but who knows, future developments could see a reevaluation. Definitely not for close quarters though.
I never thought about that, but now it makes me like the design more. Other than not working at close ranges without a change like having a charge propel it before the rocket fires, what other problems were there? I like guns, but being young and never having any hasn't made me very knowledgeable on the subject.

Quote
But face it, at this point we're just talking about babyrockets, why not go balls deep and hand the dudes full auto rpgs.
Because last time I got interested in this subject I found out that the Geneva convention banned explosive bullets. So, it would seem no.

they just weren't very practical, really expensive, and not all that accurate.

I think since the round is technically a rocket it doesn't fall under the distinction of explosive bullet.

YouTube

BaconShelf · December 03, 2014, 01:13:57 AM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:30:17 PM

Quote from: SexyPiranha on December 02, 2014, 06:21:01 PM
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 02, 2014, 06:19:45 PM
>AR's firing 50AE

Jesus, that must destroy your shoulder.
What kind of hand gun shoots a 69 mm cartridge?
Oh yeah...
OP, why is your pistol ammo longer than your rifle purposed rounds?

That one is a good point.

I should probably add in that the armour and cybernetic upgrades recurred by soldiers mean that they can use these kinds of weapons without much problem. The militia faction still uses modern conventional ammo types because they cannot.

BaconShelf · December 03, 2014, 01:15:40 AM

Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:47:00 PM

Quote from: SexyPiranha on December 02, 2014, 06:45:28 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:41:10 PM
Quote from: SexyPiranha on December 02, 2014, 06:38:32 PM
Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 02, 2014, 06:34:58 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: TheOneTrueDesticle on December 02, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: The First Noelle on December 02, 2014, 06:22:16 PM
I came in here because I know a fair bit about guns, but then you started talking about something completely different than what I know about.
Pretty much this...

Is he RPing or something?
He is creating a sci-fi universe for a story he is writing.
Huh.

To the OP: 8x69mm for an SMG is not very believable.

Additionally, both the AR and Sniper are using what is essentially a .50cal slug (the only difference between the two you mentioned are the cartridge length) which is pretty fucking ridiculous.
If they're decked out in some big kick ass armor, then it's believable. It is a Sci-Fi universe. And in WH40k Space Marines use 19.05mm projectiles for their standard rifles.
if his standard soldiers are decked out in power armor a really fucking huge cartridge could work, but otherwise nope.
They'd still have to have super long fingers/palms to brandish such a monstrosity. And if you're in power armor, why the hell are you using a pistol?
I was mainly talking about service rifles. I don't think that tiny bore diameter on the handgun justifies the crazy cartridge length. Unless of course you want some insane ballistics.
No offense to the OP but these cartridge specifications are clearly the work of someone who doesn't understand how guns work that well.

None taken. I k ow the basics if a gas operated weapon, but that's it. Though I'm taking into account suspension of disbelief due to the super cool armour they have.