Quote from: DAS r00d d00d B00T on September 14, 2015, 12:21:58 PM

Quote from: Executioner Sigma on September 14, 2015, 11:20:17 AM

Quote from: Flee on September 14, 2015, 08:45:53 AM

literally everyone knows that FN makes the objectively best guns in the world.

Fuck off, Continentalfag.

It's obviously BAE Systems.

>L85

/pineapple

L85s are shit.

fix'd

2bh I don't know why people are so mentally invested in guns. Like, I know your constitution specifically grants a right to have them from the perspective a Bong, but like, if I had a gun I'd just get so bored due to the fact that I can't go all Anders Breivik and start murderstomping everyone.

What's the point if you're not a hunter or an avid freedumb lover?

plinking is fun.

>tfw everyone wants to fight the guberment or defend their castle with their guns and I just want to set bad 70's furniture on fire with tracer rounds in a field somewhere

Quote from: underground teen memes on September 14, 2015, 01:52:43 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 14, 2015, 01:33:38 PM

Quote from: underground teen memes on September 14, 2015, 12:15:34 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 14, 2015, 11:06:20 AM

Quote from: challengerX on September 14, 2015, 06:47:57 AM

Quote from: Naru on September 13, 2015, 08:50:52 PM

ask kernal kraut, he's like a non autistic version of kinder

No he's pretty much the same.

"NELSON MANDELA WAS NOTHING BUT A TERRORIST"

being the lesser of two evils does not make one any less a terrorist

I'm glad his side won out in the end but let's not whitewash history for the sake of a warm fuzzy feeling

Aren't you a proponent of fighting government tyranny with the use of firearms?

Because that's pretty much exactly what Mandela tried to do during the late 50s/early 60s.

Along with founding an organization that killed innocent fucking people with bombs.

MK was a knee jerk response to the Sharpeville massacre in which they placed emphasis on sabotage to draw attention to government oppression as opposed to wanton killing.

But yes, they did unfortunately kill people too, I don't think anyone really denies that. Fighting for freedom is not without its collateral damage though. I thought you of all people would know this.

My definition of fighting for freedom may not exactly mesh with anyone else here.

A revolutionary movement replacing an oppressive government is not much better than an oppressive government. We're still talking about organizations legitimized exclusively by their ability to threaten force.

There is no such thing as a moral government, no matter how much this upsets utilitaricucks.

A freedom fighter will fight to prevent illegitimate force being used on himself or others- he does not follow this up by using his position to seize political power.

Freedom fighter= Mujihadeen who fucked up Commie shitlords then went back to his tribe to live a normal life.

Freedom fighter=/= Some revolutionary faggot with grievances (however legitimate) replacing an oppressive system with one he somewhat prefers.

Are you still parroting this voluntaryist no government meme?

It's a nice fuzzy little concept m8 but it doesn't work like that irl. Deposing an oppressive government and then magically expecting no one to fill the power gap because they all universally agree in the concept of freedom is a pipe dream of all pipe dreams.

And fighting for freedom CAN be done without collateral damage. Those civilian deaths at MK's hands were not accidental as far as I know. Bombs are not a defensive weapon. When you set one off in a populated area you are wholly responsible for the lives lost to it.

They were intended for government targets IIRC. I can't think for the life of me one solitary successful revolution that relied solely on the will of the people and a couple of rifles.

This is irrelevant anyway. We're talking about Mandela, not MK, who has since dissociated himself with them. If everyone were still held to their previous beliefs then half this forum, including me and you, would be ebin fedora communists.

2bh I don't know why people are so mentally invested in guns. Like, I know your constitution specifically grants a right to have them from the perspective of a Bong, but like, if I had a gun I'd just get so bored due to the fact that I can't go all Anders Breivik and start murderstomping everyone.

What's the point if you're not a hunter or an avid freedumb lover?

Shooting is fun. It's a skill, and it's an exciting and rewarding hobby to have. It's not about using my second amendment right; if rifles were illegal, I wouldn't buy one. Plus I'm in the military, and it'd be cool to score sharpshooter when the next range quals come around.

Quote from: underground teen memes on September 14, 2015, 02:22:59 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 14, 2015, 02:16:52 PM

Quote from: underground teen memes on September 14, 2015, 01:52:43 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 14, 2015, 01:33:38 PM

Quote from: underground teen memes on September 14, 2015, 12:15:34 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 14, 2015, 11:06:20 AM

Quote from: challengerX on September 14, 2015, 06:47:57 AM

Quote from: Naru on September 13, 2015, 08:50:52 PM

ask kernal kraut, he's like a non autistic version of kinder

No he's pretty much the same.

"NELSON MANDELA WAS NOTHING BUT A TERRORIST"

being the lesser of two evils does not make one any less a terrorist

I'm glad his side won out in the end but let's not whitewash history for the sake of a warm fuzzy feeling

Aren't you a proponent of fighting government tyranny with the use of firearms?

Because that's pretty much exactly what Mandela tried to do during the late 50s/early 60s.

Along with founding an organization that killed innocent fucking people with bombs.

MK was a knee jerk response to the Sharpeville massacre in which they placed emphasis on sabotage to draw attention to government oppression as opposed to wanton killing.

But yes, they did unfortunately kill people too, I don't think anyone really denies that. Fighting for freedom is not without its collateral damage though. I thought you of all people would know this.

My definition of fighting for freedom may not exactly mesh with anyone else here.

A revolutionary movement replacing an oppressive government is not much better than an oppressive government. We're still talking about organizations legitimized exclusively by their ability to threaten force.

There is no such thing as a moral government, no matter how much this upsets utilitaricucks.

A freedom fighter will fight to prevent illegitimate force being used on himself or others- he does not follow this up by using his position to seize political power.

Freedom fighter= Mujihadeen who fucked up Commie shitlords then went back to his tribe to live a normal life.

Freedom fighter=/= Some revolutionary faggot with grievances (however legitimate) replacing an oppressive system with one he somewhat prefers.

Are you still parroting this voluntaryist no government meme?

It's a nice fuzzy little concept m8 but it doesn't work like that irl. Deposing an oppressive government and then magically expecting no one to fill the power gap because they all universally agree in the concept of freedom is a pipe dream of all pipe dreams.

I don't ever expect to see a voluntarist society within my lifetime, no. We may never see one before our species meets it's end.

The problem, of course, is that there's a percieved power gap to fill. People today have so much trouble picturing a life without a central authority dictating what they can and cannot do. It's been beaten into us through thousands of years of what is essentially people-farming.

I can picture voluntarism propping up unintentionally or naturally, though. I imagine, in a future where we colonize other planets, the potential for a free society somewhere on the frontier, at least for a while. Some interplanetary imperialist fuckers could come in and demand tribute from the locals, unless they were smart enough to arm themselves.

Voluntarism could exist on a man-made island, as well, if development goes that way.

Ultimately the problem isn't that voluntarists are wrong, the problem is that everyone else is an asshole.


But we've gone WAY offtopic.

Edit: Did Mandela denounce MK before or after he attained political power? If it was before, he's not as bad as I thought. If it was after then LOL.

But voluntaryists are wrong. The monopolization of force has always been paramount, if not necessary in facilitating a society, especially as one as interconnected and interpersonal as the one we inhabit today.

That doesn't mean to say I don't advocate for as little government intervention as humanly impossible, but to posit the idea that we could function without a semblance of government, I'm sorry, but that's just fucking childish, no matter how morally just you may think it is.

The only way we can achieve what you want us to achieve is if we dissociate ourselves from the human condition, which is biologically and pathologically impossible.

Quote from: Mmmmm Napalm on September 13, 2015, 09:52:03 PM

Shit Turkey, you forgot to include the phrase "fuck off Flee" in the OP to ward off buzzkill Belgians.

Napalm pls, my interest in guns and their regulation is entirely academic. Majored in (exceptional) criminal law for my Master's and wrote one of my Bachelor's theses on gun regulation, which explains why I'm interested in this. I couldn't care much less about people messing around with guns on the other side of the world, so I'm not gonna show up in every gun thread to explain you all in detail why easy access to guns is the devil's tool.

That being said, literally everyone knows that FN makes the objectively best guns in the world. Forget about your AR and Ruger. Belgian exceptionalism or bust, Turkey.

I wasn't trying to be especially rude or anything, I was making a joke. My apologies if I came off as overly aggressive or anything.

You people keep saying we can't function without government interference even after being given dozens of examples and ways that people can live without it. This meme is almost as gay as the "capitalism is a form of government" meme.

Fuck this discussion.

Point to anywhere in this thread where literally anyone said that before you pussy out of the discussion.

Nobody is saying we can't live without state interference. The point we are trying to make is that basic governance has always been imperative for a functioning society.

There is no such thing as a moral government

/thread

why the fuck did i get quoted here?