I skim the hell out of your posts loaf because I don't have the stomach to read through your mangled writing. But I've gotta thank you for providing some form of activity to me. I skim but I do pick up bits and pieces.

You've a notable reputation as being some breed of sub-troll and I can't for the life of me ever take much of what you say in any serious capacity. But you keep the reading fresh.

I skim the hell out of your posts loaf because I don't have the stomach to read through your mangled writing. But I've gotta thank you for providing some form of activity to me. I skim but I do pick up bits and pieces.

You've a notable reputation as being some breed of sub-troll and I can't for the life of me ever take much of what you say in any serious capacity. But you keep the reading fresh.

Shut up.

Quote from: Desty on December 06, 2016, 01:49:44 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 04:37:26 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 04:05:31 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 03:11:38 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 02:56:48 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 12:09:55 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 10:20:22 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:11:05 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 05, 2016, 10:09:02 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:04:03 AM

You know that voice in your head that offers up shit opinions and ideas? You can choose to ignore that.

Not really. It feels like it, but it's just an illusion. The fact that free will doesn't exist doesn't mean that we all do things "subconsiously"--it's just that everything we do is pre-determined by the laws of motion.

I'm gunna need you to explain what you mean by the laws of motion.

Probably that if someone blows up a bus you're on, you're gonna have doubt about buses in the future, and then in the future you might see something strange on the bus that will make you react in a certain way.

This is one strand of the carpet though, because your reaction and whether you will react or not is due to other things that have affected you.

I'm not saying that we don't make decisions based on our sub conscious or our experiences. We are definitely shaped by what we've been through. That doesn't change the fact that we choose our actions.

wtf

Of course we choose our actions, otherwise there'd be no actions. It's just that these actions weren't done with "free will". We're bound by our brain's structure reacting to experiences. Some people are analytical, whereas some more feely. The two will act differently in response to an event, but it's predetermined that with that specific stimuli they will react the way they will.

And if you're thiking "but with a conscious effort they can do something else", then apply my logic to that as well. What would make them wanna do that conscious effort to act differently? Was it an idea they heard earlier that made them wanna do it, or was it selfdoubt?

That's really just splitting hairs though, we choose, therefore we have free will.

Our decisions are informed by the processes within us but you have the ability to choose.

You're not on autopilot my man.

Well, sure, I'll agree to your definition as long as you acknowledge that NPCs in games have free will.

We aren't nearly as limited in our thought processes as artificial intelligence.

But you still think that NPCs have free will?

No, npcs are programmed to do and say anything the developer tells them. They don't actually choose or consider their actions.

That's not true. The developer says "If the player said this, respond with this, but if the player says this...", and the developer has written how the character will respond after certain actions, like if you steal something from them, or attack them, or look at them funny.

In the same way humans are born with brains that respond to stimuli in certain ways, just that nobody really wrote these programs in, they just exist.

The only difference between a well made NPC in one scenario, and a human in one scenario is that the human was born with a certain program, whereas the NPC received its program from someone else.

Quote from: Desty on December 06, 2016, 06:37:07 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 06, 2016, 06:30:46 AM

Quote from: Desty on December 06, 2016, 01:49:44 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 04:37:26 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 04:05:31 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 03:11:38 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 02:56:48 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 12:09:55 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 10:20:22 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:11:05 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 05, 2016, 10:09:02 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:04:03 AM

You know that voice in your head that offers up shit opinions and ideas? You can choose to ignore that.

Not really. It feels like it, but it's just an illusion. The fact that free will doesn't exist doesn't mean that we all do things "subconsiously"--it's just that everything we do is pre-determined by the laws of motion.

I'm gunna need you to explain what you mean by the laws of motion.

Probably that if someone blows up a bus you're on, you're gonna have doubt about buses in the future, and then in the future you might see something strange on the bus that will make you react in a certain way.

This is one strand of the carpet though, because your reaction and whether you will react or not is due to other things that have affected you.

I'm not saying that we don't make decisions based on our sub conscious or our experiences. We are definitely shaped by what we've been through. That doesn't change the fact that we choose our actions.

wtf

Of course we choose our actions, otherwise there'd be no actions. It's just that these actions weren't done with "free will". We're bound by our brain's structure reacting to experiences. Some people are analytical, whereas some more feely. The two will act differently in response to an event, but it's predetermined that with that specific stimuli they will react the way they will.

And if you're thiking "but with a conscious effort they can do something else", then apply my logic to that as well. What would make them wanna do that conscious effort to act differently? Was it an idea they heard earlier that made them wanna do it, or was it selfdoubt?

That's really just splitting hairs though, we choose, therefore we have free will.

Our decisions are informed by the processes within us but you have the ability to choose.

You're not on autopilot my man.

Well, sure, I'll agree to your definition as long as you acknowledge that NPCs in games have free will.

We aren't nearly as limited in our thought processes as artificial intelligence.

But you still think that NPCs have free will?

No, npcs are programmed to do and say anything the developer tells them. They don't actually choose or consider their actions.

That's not true. The developer says "If the player said this, respond with this, but if the player says this...", and the developer has written how the character will respond after certain actions, like if you steal something from them, or attack them, or look at them funny.

In the same way humans are born with brains that respond to stimuli in certain ways, just that nobody really wrote these programs in, they just exist.

The only difference between a well made NPC in one scenario, and a human in one scenario is that the human was born with a certain program, whereas the NPC received its program from someone else.

If you wanna take it one step further

Real AI that evolves and thinks for itself probably has more free will than humans

Spoiler

I get where you're coming from but I believe that human brains are far more capable than you think. Even if we have programmed responses due to how we grow and the chemicals processes in our brains, we have the ability to learn.

Choice is ultimately what matters here. Ingrained and learned processes can be ignored.

"We're different because we can learn"
"Learned processes can be ignored"
-same guy

Choice is the result of ingrained and learned processed, so no, they shouldn't be ignored.

Desty right now if I wanted to I could kilo myself for no reason.

Programmed beings can't do that.

For no reason? The only reason why you brought it up is because of this thread. Because of the thread, and the replies. That's a reason. To kill yourself randomly for the sake of disproving something is a reason.

"conditioning" is a smarter word than "programming" for this subject

"conditioning" is a smarter word than "programming" for this subject

No it isn't.

Quote from: Verbatim on December 06, 2016, 02:21:29 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 06, 2016, 02:21:08 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 06, 2016, 02:17:53 PM

"conditioning" is a smarter word than "programming" for this subject

No it isn't.

yeah

it is

I wonder just how dense you are

0.804 g/L at STP

I ain't acknowledging shit that ain't true yo

I ain't acknowledging shit that ain't true yo

there is no god

Quote from: Verbatim on December 06, 2016, 02:26:26 PM

Quote from: Madmaxepic on December 06, 2016, 02:25:30 PM

I ain't acknowledging shit that ain't true yo

there is no god

well shit yo

i didn't know nothing exists because there was nothing to create anything

that which creates things is not necessarily god

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 06, 2016, 06:51:41 AM

Quote from: Desty on December 06, 2016, 06:37:07 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 06, 2016, 06:30:46 AM

Quote from: Desty on December 06, 2016, 01:49:44 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 04:37:26 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 04:05:31 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 03:11:38 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 02:56:48 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 12:09:55 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 10:20:22 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:11:05 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 05, 2016, 10:09:02 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:04:03 AM

You know that voice in your head that offers up shit opinions and ideas? You can choose to ignore that.

Not really. It feels like it, but it's just an illusion. The fact that free will doesn't exist doesn't mean that we all do things "subconsiously"--it's just that everything we do is pre-determined by the laws of motion.

I'm gunna need you to explain what you mean by the laws of motion.

Probably that if someone blows up a bus you're on, you're gonna have doubt about buses in the future, and then in the future you might see something strange on the bus that will make you react in a certain way.

This is one strand of the carpet though, because your reaction and whether you will react or not is due to other things that have affected you.

I'm not saying that we don't make decisions based on our sub conscious or our experiences. We are definitely shaped by what we've been through. That doesn't change the fact that we choose our actions.

wtf

Of course we choose our actions, otherwise there'd be no actions. It's just that these actions weren't done with "free will". We're bound by our brain's structure reacting to experiences. Some people are analytical, whereas some more feely. The two will act differently in response to an event, but it's predetermined that with that specific stimuli they will react the way they will.

And if you're thiking "but with a conscious effort they can do something else", then apply my logic to that as well. What would make them wanna do that conscious effort to act differently? Was it an idea they heard earlier that made them wanna do it, or was it selfdoubt?

That's really just splitting hairs though, we choose, therefore we have free will.

Our decisions are informed by the processes within us but you have the ability to choose.

You're not on autopilot my man.

Well, sure, I'll agree to your definition as long as you acknowledge that NPCs in games have free will.

We aren't nearly as limited in our thought processes as artificial intelligence.

But you still think that NPCs have free will?

No, npcs are programmed to do and say anything the developer tells them. They don't actually choose or consider their actions.

That's not true. The developer says "If the player said this, respond with this, but if the player says this...", and the developer has written how the character will respond after certain actions, like if you steal something from them, or attack them, or look at them funny.

In the same way humans are born with brains that respond to stimuli in certain ways, just that nobody really wrote these programs in, they just exist.

The only difference between a well made NPC in one scenario, and a human in one scenario is that the human was born with a certain program, whereas the NPC received its program from someone else.

If you wanna take it one step further

Real AI that evolves and thinks for itself probably has more free will than humans

Spoiler

I get where you're coming from but I believe that human brains are far more capable than you think. Even if we have programmed responses due to how we grow and the chemicals processes in our brains, we have the ability to learn.

Choice is ultimately what matters here. Ingrained and learned processes can be ignored.

"We're different because we can learn"
"Learned processes can be ignored"
-same guy

Choice is the result of ingrained and learned processed, so no, they shouldn't be ignored.

Ok Desty. We are the same as npcs.

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 06, 2016, 02:32:30 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 06, 2016, 01:55:46 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 06, 2016, 06:51:41 AM

Quote from: Desty on December 06, 2016, 06:37:07 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 06, 2016, 06:30:46 AM

Quote from: Desty on December 06, 2016, 01:49:44 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 04:37:26 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 04:05:31 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 03:11:38 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 02:56:48 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 12:09:55 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 10:20:22 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:11:05 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 05, 2016, 10:09:02 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:04:03 AM

You know that voice in your head that offers up shit opinions and ideas? You can choose to ignore that.

Not really. It feels like it, but it's just an illusion. The fact that free will doesn't exist doesn't mean that we all do things "subconsiously"--it's just that everything we do is pre-determined by the laws of motion.

I'm gunna need you to explain what you mean by the laws of motion.

Probably that if someone blows up a bus you're on, you're gonna have doubt about buses in the future, and then in the future you might see something strange on the bus that will make you react in a certain way.

This is one strand of the carpet though, because your reaction and whether you will react or not is due to other things that have affected you.

I'm not saying that we don't make decisions based on our sub conscious or our experiences. We are definitely shaped by what we've been through. That doesn't change the fact that we choose our actions.

wtf

Of course we choose our actions, otherwise there'd be no actions. It's just that these actions weren't done with "free will". We're bound by our brain's structure reacting to experiences. Some people are analytical, whereas some more feely. The two will act differently in response to an event, but it's predetermined that with that specific stimuli they will react the way they will.

And if you're thiking "but with a conscious effort they can do something else", then apply my logic to that as well. What would make them wanna do that conscious effort to act differently? Was it an idea they heard earlier that made them wanna do it, or was it selfdoubt?

That's really just splitting hairs though, we choose, therefore we have free will.

Our decisions are informed by the processes within us but you have the ability to choose.

You're not on autopilot my man.

Well, sure, I'll agree to your definition as long as you acknowledge that NPCs in games have free will.

We aren't nearly as limited in our thought processes as artificial intelligence.

But you still think that NPCs have free will?

No, npcs are programmed to do and say anything the developer tells them. They don't actually choose or consider their actions.

That's not true. The developer says "If the player said this, respond with this, but if the player says this...", and the developer has written how the character will respond after certain actions, like if you steal something from them, or attack them, or look at them funny.

In the same way humans are born with brains that respond to stimuli in certain ways, just that nobody really wrote these programs in, they just exist.

The only difference between a well made NPC in one scenario, and a human in one scenario is that the human was born with a certain program, whereas the NPC received its program from someone else.

If you wanna take it one step further

Real AI that evolves and thinks for itself probably has more free will than humans

Spoiler

I get where you're coming from but I believe that human brains are far more capable than you think. Even if we have programmed responses due to how we grow and the chemicals processes in our brains, we have the ability to learn.

Choice is ultimately what matters here. Ingrained and learned processes can be ignored.

"We're different because we can learn"
"Learned processes can be ignored"
-same guy

Choice is the result of ingrained and learned processed, so no, they shouldn't be ignored.

Ok Desty. We are the same as npcs.

Current NPCs? No. They're not as complex and long lasting as humans.

they could potentially last forever tho