It would be stellar if you formatted your posts differently. I see a wall of text and instantly dismiss it.

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 09:46:49 AM

Free will absolutely exists. Mental illness can play a role but I'm not buying the whole "I had a rough childhood so you can't blame me for raping and murdering that girl"

It is up to the individual to overcome their circumstances.

What the fuck? You can't say free will exists if you can't even define how we're free. You completely misunderstand the argument against free will, you're just saying the first thing that comes out of your mouth and acting like you know what you're talking about. Granted, I don't actually know whether or not free exists for certain either, but when I look at all the signs that point to whether it doesn't exist, I think it's pretty clear to me that it doesn't exist. The fact that we're biological organisms and our biology is just a reaction of chemicals and the laws of physics, which are actually outside of our control for everything else and we actually don't control our own thoughts, they're created in our sub conscious and observed by our conscious mind; I think that and a lot of other clear factors contribute to why free will doesn't exist, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let some dumbass with no argument tell me so arrogantly that "free will definitely exists". God it's so stupid, stupidity really makes me angry.

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:04:03 AM

You know that voice in your head that offers up shit opinions and ideas? You can choose to ignore that.

Not really. It feels like it, but it's just an illusion. The fact that free will doesn't exist doesn't mean that we all do things "subconsiously"--it's just that everything we do is pre-determined by the laws of motion.

Quote from: Loaf on December 05, 2016, 09:57:55 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 09:46:49 AM

Free will absolutely exists. Mental illness can play a role but I'm not buying the whole "I had a rough childhood so you can't blame me for raping and murdering that girl"

It is up to the individual to overcome their circumstances.

What the fuck? You can't say free will exists if you can't even define how we're free. You completely misunderstand the argument against free will, you're just saying the first thing that comes out of your mouth and acting like you know what you're talking about. Granted, I don't actually know whether or not free exists for certain either, but when I look at all the signs that point to whether it doesn't exist, I think it's pretty clear to me that it doesn't exist. The fact that we're biological organisms and our biology is just a reaction of chemicals and the laws of physics, which are actually outside of our control for everything else and we actually don't control our own thoughts, they're created in our sub conscious and observed by our conscious mind; I think that and a lot of other clear factors contribute to why free will doesn't exist, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let some dumbass with no argument tell me so arrogantly that "free will definitely exists". God it's so stupid, stupidity really makes me angry.

You know that voice in your head that offers up shit opinions and ideas? You can choose to ignore that.

The fact that you can ignore that is proof positive that free will exists. If we all did things subconsciously I'd be murdering and raping people all the time.

Moral ambiguity is a whole other concept. Maybe it's not wrong to kill people you don't like, maybe stealing from people isn't as bad as everyone thinks. That doesn't change the fact that you have the free will to choose whether these things are right and wrong and whether or not to do them.

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:04:03 AM

Quote from: Loaf on December 05, 2016, 09:57:55 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 09:46:49 AM

Free will absolutely exists. Mental illness can play a role but I'm not buying the whole "I had a rough childhood so you can't blame me for raping and murdering that girl"

It is up to the individual to overcome their circumstances.

What the fuck? You can't say free will exists if you can't even define how we're free. You completely misunderstand the argument against free will, you're just saying the first thing that comes out of your mouth and acting like you know what you're talking about. Granted, I don't actually know whether or not free exists for certain either, but when I look at all the signs that point to whether it doesn't exist, I think it's pretty clear to me that it doesn't exist. The fact that we're biological organisms and our biology is just a reaction of chemicals and the laws of physics, which are actually outside of our control for everything else and we actually don't control our own thoughts, they're created in our sub conscious and observed by our conscious mind; I think that and a lot of other clear factors contribute to why free will doesn't exist, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let some dumbass with no argument tell me so arrogantly that "free will definitely exists". God it's so stupid, stupidity really makes me angry.

You know that voice in your head that offers up shit opinions and ideas? You can choose to ignore that.

The fact that you can ignore that is proof positive that free will exists. If we all did things subconsciously I'd be murdering and raping people all the time.

Moral ambiguity is a whole other concept. Maybe it's not wrong to kill people you don't like, maybe stealing from people isn't as bad as everyone thinks. That doesn't change the fact that you have the free will to choose whether these things are right and wrong and whether or not to do them.

That argument is horrible, how do you know that free will isn't an illusion and you just have the illusion of making choices? Your arguments are just arrogant garbage. You're not killing people and shit because you were fortunate enough to not be born with the biology of a person who kills others, it's that simple.

I'm gunna need you to explain what you mean by the laws of motion.

Determinism is the philosophical belief that every event or action is the inevitable result of preceding events and actions. Thus, in principle at least, every event or action can be completely predicted in advance, or in retrospect.

As a philosophical belief about the material world, determinism can be traced as least as far back as the time of Ancient Greece, several thousand years ago.

Determinism became incorporated into modern science around the year 1500 A.D. with the establishment of the idea that cause-and-effect rules completely govern all motion and structure on the material level.

According to the deterministic model of science, the universe unfolds in time like the workings of a perfect machine, without a shred of randomness or deviation from the predetermined laws.

The person most closely associated with the establishment of determinism at the core of modern science is Isaac Newton, who lived in England about 300 years ago.

Newton discovered a concise set of principles, expressible in only a few sentences, which he showed could predict the motion in an astonishingly wide variety of systems to a very high degree of accuracy.

Newton demonstrated that his three laws of motion, combined through the process of logic, could accurately predict the orbits in time of the planets around the sun, the shapes of the paths of projectiles on earth, and the schedule of the ocean tides throughout the month and year, among other things.

Newton's laws are completely deterministic because they imply that anything that happens at any future time is completed determined by what happens now, and moreover that everything now was completely determined by what happened at any time in the past.

Newton's three laws were so successful that for several centuries after his discovery, the science of physics consisted largely of demonstrating how his laws could account for the observed motion of nearly any imaginable physical process.

Although Newton's laws were superseded around the year 1900 by a larger set of physical laws, determinism remains today as the core philosophy and goal of physical science.

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 10:20:22 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:11:05 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 05, 2016, 10:09:02 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:04:03 AM

You know that voice in your head that offers up shit opinions and ideas? You can choose to ignore that.

Not really. It feels like it, but it's just an illusion. The fact that free will doesn't exist doesn't mean that we all do things "subconsiously"--it's just that everything we do is pre-determined by the laws of motion.

I'm gunna need you to explain what you mean by the laws of motion.

Probably that if someone blows up a bus you're on, you're gonna have doubt about buses in the future, and then in the future you might see something strange on the bus that will make you react in a certain way.

This is one strand of the carpet though, because your reaction and whether you will react or not is due to other things that have affected you.

I'm not saying that we don't make decisions based on our sub conscious or our experiences. We are definitely shaped by what we've been through. That doesn't change the fact that we choose our actions.

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 12:09:55 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 10:20:22 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:11:05 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 05, 2016, 10:09:02 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:04:03 AM

You know that voice in your head that offers up shit opinions and ideas? You can choose to ignore that.

Not really. It feels like it, but it's just an illusion. The fact that free will doesn't exist doesn't mean that we all do things "subconsiously"--it's just that everything we do is pre-determined by the laws of motion.

I'm gunna need you to explain what you mean by the laws of motion.

Probably that if someone blows up a bus you're on, you're gonna have doubt about buses in the future, and then in the future you might see something strange on the bus that will make you react in a certain way.

This is one strand of the carpet though, because your reaction and whether you will react or not is due to other things that have affected you.

I'm not saying that we don't make decisions based on our sub conscious or our experiences. We are definitely shaped by what we've been through. That doesn't change the fact that we choose our actions.

wtf

Of course we choose our actions, otherwise there'd be no actions. It's just that these actions weren't done with "free will". We're bound by our brain's structure reacting to experiences. Some people are analytical, whereas some more feely. The two will act differently in response to an event, but it's predetermined that with that specific stimuli they will react the way they will.

And if you're thiking "but with a conscious effort they can do something else", then apply my logic to that as well. What would make them wanna do that conscious effort to act differently? Was it an idea they heard earlier that made them wanna do it, or was it selfdoubt?

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 03:11:38 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 02:56:48 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 12:09:55 PM

Quote from: Desty on December 05, 2016, 10:20:22 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:11:05 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 05, 2016, 10:09:02 AM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on December 05, 2016, 10:04:03 AM

You know that voice in your head that offers up shit opinions and ideas? You can choose to ignore that.

Not really. It feels like it, but it's just an illusion. The fact that free will doesn't exist doesn't mean that we all do things "subconsiously"--it's just that everything we do is pre-determined by the laws of motion.

I'm gunna need you to explain what you mean by the laws of motion.

Probably that if someone blows up a bus you're on, you're gonna have doubt about buses in the future, and then in the future you might see something strange on the bus that will make you react in a certain way.

This is one strand of the carpet though, because your reaction and whether you will react or not is due to other things that have affected you.

I'm not saying that we don't make decisions based on our sub conscious or our experiences. We are definitely shaped by what we've been through. That doesn't change the fact that we choose our actions.

wtf

Of course we choose our actions, otherwise there'd be no actions. It's just that these actions weren't done with "free will". We're bound by our brain's structure reacting to experiences. Some people are analytical, whereas some more feely. The two will act differently in response to an event, but it's predetermined that with that specific stimuli they will react the way they will.

And if you're thiking "but with a conscious effort they can do something else", then apply my logic to that as well. What would make them wanna do that conscious effort to act differently? Was it an idea they heard earlier that made them wanna do it, or was it selfdoubt?

That's really just splitting hairs though, we choose, therefore we have free will.

Our decisions are informed by the processes within us but you have the ability to choose.

You're not on autopilot my man.

Well, sure, I'll agree to your definition as long as you acknowledge that NPCs in games have free will.