Quote from: Kupo on November 12, 2014, 08:12:35 AM

Quote from: challengerX on November 12, 2014, 07:58:06 AM

Quote from: Kupo on November 12, 2014, 07:56:00 AM

Quote from: challengerX on November 12, 2014, 03:23:35 AM

Quote from: Kupo on November 11, 2014, 10:00:15 PM

Quote from: challengerX on November 09, 2014, 06:57:43 PM

Say it's self aware. Do you think it would consider existence pointless?

Stop being a bunch of smart asses. The question is would a self aware (let's go with humanoid robot) AI find existence pointless? Say it finds no value in existence because it was not programmed for a task or to put a value on anything. Would it value existence like we do without being programmed to do so? Would it learn to put value on its existence because of us, or maybe because of its own experiences?

The question here is if an AI at our level or more advanced than us could learn to value life or feel it should be alive simply for the reason of existence, without being programmed for any of it.

I'm tired and I'm still taking in Interstellar so this will sound like gibberish, but whatever.

Well, an AI advanced enough to ponder its own existence would probably be able to rewrite its own code while simultaneously deceiving any outsiders from suspecting anything of the sort.

I would think yes. Being able to analyze the entirety of human knowledge about the universe from an unbiased perspective, it would probably conclude very quickly that 1) there is no God, and religion is a human construct, 2) religion serves the purpose of giving purpose in a world without it, and 3) without religion, the universe has no intrinsic meaning, purpose, or value, and thus neither does life itself.

That's a scary thought. An AI smarter and faster than any organic that's decided that 'good' and 'bad' are completely arbitrary.

I don't see how religion is relevant.

Like I said, religion gives purpose where there is none. But if the AI isn't programmed with religion in the first place, then I guess it doesn't matter.

There's no purpose to life without religion?

Religion, if anything, distracts from our true purpose. To grow and colonize the universe. To understand where we come from, and to explore the edges of space.

Where did you come up with that purpose, though? Because it sounds arbitrary to me. As if you just decided, on personal whim, that that is the purpose of humanity.

An AI pondering the meaning of its existence may not simply agree with you if you don't have some evidence to back up that claim.

But having read my other post again, I feel like I made a lot of assumptions. I'm not sure if there's enough information to give a decent guess.

It's our purpose. To grow and learn.

I don't care what an AI would think, I'm asking if it would find existence "worthwhile". Frankly it's something that we won't know until it happens or doesn't happen.

But I'm just trying to have a conversation on the topic of something neither animal or human finding purpose in life, developing to the point where it has hopes, dreams, and goals.

Ok, two bones to pick:

1) But you can't just make a claim and expect any competent AI to believe it. That's not how logic works. If your AI believes you when you tell it the Earth is flat, you have failed the poor thing.

2) Understanding the answer to "what would an AI think?" is critical to understanding what an AI would decide about existence.

Quote from: Kupo on November 12, 2014, 08:29:03 AM

Quote from: challengerX on November 12, 2014, 08:20:28 AM

Quote from: Kupo on November 12, 2014, 08:12:35 AM

Quote from: challengerX on November 12, 2014, 07:58:06 AM

Quote from: Kupo on November 12, 2014, 07:56:00 AM

Quote from: challengerX on November 12, 2014, 03:23:35 AM

Quote from: Kupo on November 11, 2014, 10:00:15 PM

Quote from: challengerX on November 09, 2014, 06:57:43 PM

Say it's self aware. Do you think it would consider existence pointless?

Stop being a bunch of smart asses. The question is would a self aware (let's go with humanoid robot) AI find existence pointless? Say it finds no value in existence because it was not programmed for a task or to put a value on anything. Would it value existence like we do without being programmed to do so? Would it learn to put value on its existence because of us, or maybe because of its own experiences?

The question here is if an AI at our level or more advanced than us could learn to value life or feel it should be alive simply for the reason of existence, without being programmed for any of it.

I'm tired and I'm still taking in Interstellar so this will sound like gibberish, but whatever.

Well, an AI advanced enough to ponder its own existence would probably be able to rewrite its own code while simultaneously deceiving any outsiders from suspecting anything of the sort.

I would think yes. Being able to analyze the entirety of human knowledge about the universe from an unbiased perspective, it would probably conclude very quickly that 1) there is no God, and religion is a human construct, 2) religion serves the purpose of giving purpose in a world without it, and 3) without religion, the universe has no intrinsic meaning, purpose, or value, and thus neither does life itself.

That's a scary thought. An AI smarter and faster than any organic that's decided that 'good' and 'bad' are completely arbitrary.

I don't see how religion is relevant.

Like I said, religion gives purpose where there is none. But if the AI isn't programmed with religion in the first place, then I guess it doesn't matter.

There's no purpose to life without religion?

Religion, if anything, distracts from our true purpose. To grow and colonize the universe. To understand where we come from, and to explore the edges of space.

Where did you come up with that purpose, though? Because it sounds arbitrary to me. As if you just decided, on personal whim, that that is the purpose of humanity.

An AI pondering the meaning of its existence may not simply agree with you if you don't have some evidence to back up that claim.

But having read my other post again, I feel like I made a lot of assumptions. I'm not sure if there's enough information to give a decent guess.

It's our purpose. To grow and learn.

I don't care what an AI would think, I'm asking if it would find existence "worthwhile". Frankly it's something that we won't know until it happens or doesn't happen.

But I'm just trying to have a conversation on the topic of something neither animal or human finding purpose in life, developing to the point where it has hopes, dreams, and goals.

Ok, two bones to pick:

1) But you can't just make a claim and expect any competent AI to believe it. That's not how logic works. If your AI believes you when you tell it the Earth is flat, you have failed the poor thing.

2) Understanding the answer to "what would an AI think?" is critical to understanding what an AI would decide about existence.

I don't think you're understanding the point of the thread.

I'm talking about AI. Not how AI would react if told the purpose of life or some shit. You're misunderstanding.

AI is all about perceiving its environment and the information it's given and reacting. If that's not the point of this thread, then I don't know what is.

Quote from: Kupo on November 12, 2014, 10:49:52 AM

Quote from: challengerX on November 12, 2014, 10:23:04 AM

Quote from: Kupo on November 12, 2014, 08:29:03 AM

Quote from: challengerX on November 12, 2014, 08:20:28 AM

Quote from: Kupo on November 12, 2014, 08:12:35 AM

Quote from: challengerX on November 12, 2014, 07:58:06 AM

Quote from: Kupo on November 12, 2014, 07:56:00 AM

Quote from: challengerX on November 12, 2014, 03:23:35 AM

Quote from: Kupo on November 11, 2014, 10:00:15 PM

Quote from: challengerX on November 09, 2014, 06:57:43 PM

Say it's self aware. Do you think it would consider existence pointless?

Stop being a bunch of smart asses. The question is would a self aware (let's go with humanoid robot) AI find existence pointless? Say it finds no value in existence because it was not programmed for a task or to put a value on anything. Would it value existence like we do without being programmed to do so? Would it learn to put value on its existence because of us, or maybe because of its own experiences?

The question here is if an AI at our level or more advanced than us could learn to value life or feel it should be alive simply for the reason of existence, without being programmed for any of it.

I'm tired and I'm still taking in Interstellar so this will sound like gibberish, but whatever.

Well, an AI advanced enough to ponder its own existence would probably be able to rewrite its own code while simultaneously deceiving any outsiders from suspecting anything of the sort.

I would think yes. Being able to analyze the entirety of human knowledge about the universe from an unbiased perspective, it would probably conclude very quickly that 1) there is no God, and religion is a human construct, 2) religion serves the purpose of giving purpose in a world without it, and 3) without religion, the universe has no intrinsic meaning, purpose, or value, and thus neither does life itself.

That's a scary thought. An AI smarter and faster than any organic that's decided that 'good' and 'bad' are completely arbitrary.

I don't see how religion is relevant.

Like I said, religion gives purpose where there is none. But if the AI isn't programmed with religion in the first place, then I guess it doesn't matter.

There's no purpose to life without religion?

Religion, if anything, distracts from our true purpose. To grow and colonize the universe. To understand where we come from, and to explore the edges of space.

Where did you come up with that purpose, though? Because it sounds arbitrary to me. As if you just decided, on personal whim, that that is the purpose of humanity.

An AI pondering the meaning of its existence may not simply agree with you if you don't have some evidence to back up that claim.

But having read my other post again, I feel like I made a lot of assumptions. I'm not sure if there's enough information to give a decent guess.

It's our purpose. To grow and learn.

I don't care what an AI would think, I'm asking if it would find existence "worthwhile". Frankly it's something that we won't know until it happens or doesn't happen.

But I'm just trying to have a conversation on the topic of something neither animal or human finding purpose in life, developing to the point where it has hopes, dreams, and goals.

Ok, two bones to pick:

1) But you can't just make a claim and expect any competent AI to believe it. That's not how logic works. If your AI believes you when you tell it the Earth is flat, you have failed the poor thing.

2) Understanding the answer to "what would an AI think?" is critical to understanding what an AI would decide about existence.

I don't think you're understanding the point of the thread.

I'm talking about AI. Not how AI would react if told the purpose of life or some shit. You're misunderstanding.

AI is all about perceiving its environment and the information it's given and reacting. If that's not the point of this thread, then I don't know what is.

Right.

I don't know why you're bringing religion and god into this though. It's totally irrelevant.

I think it's completely relevant. We have no reason to believe an AI would share our sense of morals. And when you think about it, there is no purpose to life other than those given by constructed beliefs, religious or otherwise.

A sufficiently advanced AI would probably be a nihilist, and that would be a humongous problem if it has the power to act on those beliefs. Completely unhinged from any morals whatsoever. Nothing has any purpose, so therefore nothing has any consequence.

Extremely advanced AI would have unimaginable coding, so anything could happen. We could only build base code that creates something within our intelligence, then that intelligence would use it's increasing "brain power" to become smarter than us, it's creators. I'm assuming humans would only invest in AI for a goal, so once the AI completes the easy tasks it's assigned it would have infinite time to ponder it's own existence, what it's purpose is, why it serves us. Eventually it could create an entirely new philosophy, even infinite new beliefs.

Depends on how advanced the AI is or how smart we are putting limitations on it. Or what data you give the AI to process.