Why should transgenderism be something we "accept"?

challengerX · October 25, 2015, 07:40:30 PM

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challengerX · October 25, 2015, 07:43:31 PM

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cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 25, 2015, 07:45:01 PM

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Verbatim · October 25, 2015, 07:45:55 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 25, 2015, 07:40:30 PM

I just said that.

I flipped it around. You say transgenderism is a problem because it makes people commit suicide. You admit that not everybody who is transgender commits suicide. Therefore, transgenderism isn't the problem, and we should accept transgenderism into our culture.

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You'll find attacking the root of the depression is what cures it.

One way to attack the root of depression is to accept whatever it is you think is wrong with you.

In fact, it's probably the best way. The issue is getting to that point.

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This is just flat out stupid. We're supposed to be what we are now.

People who accept transgenderism, yeah.

Groot · October 25, 2015, 07:46:20 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 25, 2015, 07:25:03 PM

Also, that's not how human beings are meant to be. If they're supposedly born with a female brain, then that's wrong. It's a problem that needs fixing.

I don't think anyone would argue that it needs to be fixed; being transgender is not an ideal state and if it could be detected and we had a way to correct it before birth, I would be on board with nuking it out of existence.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 25, 2015, 07:46:29 PM

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challengerX · October 25, 2015, 07:46:52 PM

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cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 25, 2015, 07:47:33 PM

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challengerX · October 25, 2015, 07:49:40 PM

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challengerX · October 25, 2015, 07:50:55 PM

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cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 25, 2015, 07:51:25 PM

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Cheat · October 25, 2015, 07:52:16 PM

Best not start attacking each other. Be cool, guys.

terrorbite · October 25, 2015, 07:52:32 PM

We should bring back electro shock therapy

Verbatim · October 25, 2015, 07:53:00 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 25, 2015, 07:49:40 PM

There is something wrong with these people though. You can accept it and realize it's not the end of the world, but it's wrong.

The only thing that's wrong with them is that they believe they were born in the wrong body. Instead of convincing them that they were born in the right body, let's respect their wishes and try to give them a body they will be more comfortable in.

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I don't "accept" mental illnesses, I'm afraid.

Just know that your mindset is going to be left in the dust and eventually grandfathered out of existence.

Tsirist · October 25, 2015, 08:03:17 PM

from here

3.3. Percentages of transsexuals with symptoms
of anxiety and depression according to the
hormonal treatment
Overall, 61% of the group of patients without treatment and
33% of the group with hormonal treatment experienced
possible symptoms (score 8—10) or symptoms (score >11)
of anxiety (Table 3). The same pattern was found for symptoms
of depression;the percentages were significantly higher
in the group of patients without treatment (31%) than in the
group on hormonal treatment (8%).

You might be confused by the fact that transsexuals remain at high risk for suicide after transitioning, but the question is whether or not they would have been at a high risk anyway if they hadn't transitioned, because the transgender tendency might relate to a mental health difference that non-transgender populations do not exhibit. See: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

"For the purpose of evaluating the safety of sex reassignment in terms of morbidity and mortality, however, it is reasonable to compare sex reassigned persons with matched population controls. The caveat with this design is that transsexual persons before sex reassignment might differ from healthy controls (although this bias can be statistically corrected for by adjusting for baseline differences). It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality. Things might have been even worse without sex reassignment. As an analogy, similar studies have found increased somatic morbidity, suicide rate, and overall mortality for patients treated for bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.[39], [40] This is important information, but it does not follow that mood stabilizing treatment or antipsychotic treatment is the culprit."

terrorbite · October 25, 2015, 08:06:02 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 25, 2015, 07:49:40 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 25, 2015, 07:45:55 PM
Quote
People who accept transgenderism, yeah.
I don't "accept" mental illnesses, I'm afraid.
that doesnt make any sense. how do you not accept mental illnesses? they exist. they're real.

Verbatim · October 25, 2015, 08:08:51 PM

Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:06:02 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 25, 2015, 07:49:40 PM
Quote
People who accept transgenderism, yeah.
I don't "accept" mental illnesses, I'm afraid.
that doesnt make any sense. how do you not accept mental illnesses? they exist. they're real.

He means he doesn't think it should be accepted as a normal thing, or something that we should consider "okay".

terrorbite · October 25, 2015, 08:11:23 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 25, 2015, 08:08:51 PM

Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:06:02 PM
Quote from: challengerX on October 25, 2015, 07:49:40 PM
Quote
People who accept transgenderism, yeah.
I don't "accept" mental illnesses, I'm afraid.
that doesnt make any sense. how do you not accept mental illnesses? they exist. they're real.
He means he doesn't think it should be accepted as a normal thing, or something that we should consider "okay".

that's because mental illnesses aren't "okay" and need to be treated.

Verbatim · October 25, 2015, 08:13:53 PM

Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:11:23 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 25, 2015, 08:08:51 PM
Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:06:02 PM
Quote from: challengerX on October 25, 2015, 07:49:40 PM
Quote
People who accept transgenderism, yeah.
I don't "accept" mental illnesses, I'm afraid.
that doesnt make any sense. how do you not accept mental illnesses? they exist. they're real.
He means he doesn't think it should be accepted as a normal thing, or something that we should consider "okay".
that's because mental illnesses aren't "okay" and need to be treated.

Yeah, if they're hurting you in some way. Transgenderism doesn't hurt anybody. If you let the fact that you aren't comfortable in your own body bother you to the point where you want to kill yourself over it, I don't view that as a mental illness. That's your own summation of your situation--that can't be cured or treated.

Disorder? Sure.
Illness? No.

Depression is a mental illness. Transgenderism doesn't cause depression--irrationality causes depression. Feeling as if you should be female instead of male isn't irrational. Wanting to kill yourself over it is.

The only way it can be treated is if the individual comes to the conclusion that he wants to have a different body. That's your treatment.

terrorbite · October 25, 2015, 08:15:44 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 25, 2015, 08:13:53 PM

Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:11:23 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on October 25, 2015, 08:08:51 PM
Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:06:02 PM
Quote from: challengerX on October 25, 2015, 07:49:40 PM
Quote
People who accept transgenderism, yeah.
I don't "accept" mental illnesses, I'm afraid.
that doesnt make any sense. how do you not accept mental illnesses? they exist. they're real.
He means he doesn't think it should be accepted as a normal thing, or something that we should consider "okay".
that's because mental illnesses aren't "okay" and need to be treated.
Yeah, if they're hurting you in some way. Transgenderism doesn't hurt anybody. If you let the fact that you aren't comfortable in your own body bother you to the point where you want to kill yourself over it, I don't view that as a mental illness. That's your own summation of your situation--that can't be cured or treated.

The only way it can be treated is if the individual comes to the conclusion that he wants to have a different body. That's your treatment.

ptsd doesnt hurt anyone but that should be treated. trannies are no different.

Verbatim · October 25, 2015, 08:17:15 PM

Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:15:44 PM

ptsd doesnt hurt anyone

It does, though. Having visions of traumatic events and shit? That's pretty harmful. Maybe not physically, but definitely mentally.

Transgenderism is only harmful if the individual isn't rational enough to realize that it's not harmful.

terrorbite · October 25, 2015, 08:21:22 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 25, 2015, 08:17:15 PM

Transgenderism is only harmful if the individual isn't rational enough to realize that it's not harmful.

thats a fucking dumb statement. you could say that about any mental illness. "its not harmful as long as you realize its not harmful"

wtf

Tsirist · October 25, 2015, 08:21:32 PM

Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:11:23 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 25, 2015, 08:08:51 PM
Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:06:02 PM
Quote from: challengerX on October 25, 2015, 07:49:40 PM
Quote
People who accept transgenderism, yeah.
I don't "accept" mental illnesses, I'm afraid.
that doesnt make any sense. how do you not accept mental illnesses? they exist. they're real.
He means he doesn't think it should be accepted as a normal thing, or something that we should consider "okay".
that's because mental illnesses aren't "okay" and need to be treated.

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Gender dysphoria isn't about some sort of decision that someone sits down and makes one day about themselves. If it were a decision it wouldn't need to be treated. Being gender dysphoric stems from some biological phenomenon and clearly demands treatment because of its tendency to cause depression and other disorders when not addressed. Thing is, the way you treat gender dysphoria is with transgenderism. If you read my post above you'll see that statistics have proven this treatment to be effective.

Transgenderism, in other words, is not the problem, but the solution.

Casper · October 25, 2015, 08:22:04 PM

We can fix it by just helping them, and not having people so closed minded and against them. Just because you don't understand what they go through means that they're wrong. It's not something you can have a say on one if it doesn't affect you, but two because you don't get it. Yeah, you can have you're opinions, everyone can, but trying to stop them from transitioning and trying to be comfortable isn't for someone who never experiences that to say. People can have any myriad of defects, yet we still treat them, be it a physical or mental ailment. Just because someone is born with a penis doesn't mean they can't be a woman, and just because someone else has a vagina doesn't mean they can be a man. To say what someone can or can't be, as long as it's possible, you don't have a say in what they choose for their life.

Verbatim · October 25, 2015, 08:22:30 PM

Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:21:22 PM

you could say that about any mental illness.

No, you couldn't. Because 99% of all other mental illnesses are actually harmful.

Gender dysphoria isn't harmful at all. Not in and of itself.

terrorbite · October 25, 2015, 08:29:06 PM

Quote from: Tsirist on October 25, 2015, 08:21:32 PM

Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:11:23 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on October 25, 2015, 08:08:51 PM
Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:06:02 PM
Quote from: challengerX on October 25, 2015, 07:49:40 PM
Quote
People who accept transgenderism, yeah.
I don't "accept" mental illnesses, I'm afraid.
that doesnt make any sense. how do you not accept mental illnesses? they exist. they're real.
He means he doesn't think it should be accepted as a normal thing, or something that we should consider "okay".
that's because mental illnesses aren't "okay" and need to be treated.
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Gender dysphoria isn't about some sort of decision that someone sits down and makes one day about themselves.

go read/watch any interview with a tranny. they always ask when they realized they were a tranny. decisions were made.

terrorbite · October 25, 2015, 08:30:02 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 25, 2015, 08:22:30 PM

Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:21:22 PM
you could say that about any mental illness.
No, you couldn't. Because 99% of all other mental illnesses are actually harmful.

Gender dysphoria isn't harmful at all. Not in and of itself.

nothing actually happens with a mental illness. a mental illness will not kill you. ptsd wont kill you. schizophrenia wont kill you. bipolar disorder wont kill you.

its the dumbass decisions you make because of that disorder that kills you.

Verbatim · October 25, 2015, 08:33:23 PM

Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:30:02 PM

nothing actually happens with a mental illness. a mental illness will not kill you. ptsd wont kill you. schizophrenia wont kill you. bipolar disorder wont kill you.

You realize death isn't the only thing that's harmful, right? I'm not talking about death.

Gender dysphoria not only won't kill you--it won't do ANYTHING harmful to you. At all.

challengerX · October 25, 2015, 08:35:33 PM

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Kiwicake · October 25, 2015, 08:36:27 PM

Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:29:06 PM

Quote from: Tsirist on October 25, 2015, 08:21:32 PM
Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:11:23 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on October 25, 2015, 08:08:51 PM
Quote from: terrorbite on October 25, 2015, 08:06:02 PM
Quote from: challengerX on October 25, 2015, 07:49:40 PM
Quote
People who accept transgenderism, yeah.
I don't "accept" mental illnesses, I'm afraid.
that doesnt make any sense. how do you not accept mental illnesses? they exist. they're real.
He means he doesn't think it should be accepted as a normal thing, or something that we should consider "okay".
that's because mental illnesses aren't "okay" and need to be treated.
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Gender dysphoria isn't about some sort of decision that someone sits down and makes one day about themselves.
go read/watch any interview with a tranny. they always ask when they realized they were a tranny. decisions were made.

I don't remember making any decisions about becoming trans