Why did we evolve to have morality?

Dustin · January 09, 2015, 08:45:40 AM

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DAS B00T x2 · January 09, 2015, 08:52:02 AM

I'd say it's a byproduct of cognitive thought, but dolphins are notorious rapists.

Verbatim · January 09, 2015, 08:56:12 AM

A species more intelligent than us would be smart enough to know that might doesn't make right. You cite the example of animals in the wild--but we're a fuckton more intelligent that animals in the wild. "Animal morality" is not parallel to "human morality" in the slightest. We are much more intellectually capable of wild animals--and we have these moral standards, why? Because it's good not to be a scumfuck. You look around, see a lion mauling a gazelle or whatever. And you ask yourself, "what if that were me?" And you determine that if you didn't want that to happen to you, you shouldn't do anything similar to that to anything else. It's called fairness, it's called ethics, it's called rationality. To dismiss that notion and succumb to carnal desire for no other reason than "it's our biological calling" or some bullshit like that is just pure lunacy.

Dustin · January 09, 2015, 08:56:26 AM

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Magos Domina · January 09, 2015, 08:56:50 AM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on January 09, 2015, 08:52:02 AM

I'd say it's a byproduct of cognitive thought, but dolphins are notorious rapists.

And humans aren't?

Dustin · January 09, 2015, 08:57:44 AM

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DAS B00T x2 · January 09, 2015, 08:59:11 AM

Quote from: Kiyohime on January 09, 2015, 08:56:50 AM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on January 09, 2015, 08:52:02 AM
I'd say it's a byproduct of cognitive thought, but dolphins are notorious rapists.
And humans aren't?

rape culture isn't a thing.

More Than Mortal · January 09, 2015, 08:59:28 AM

You should read Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind--it goes into detail about moral cognition and how it evolved and relates to things like religion and politics.

Very, very briefly, it evolved as a mechanism for self-domestication.

Magos Domina · January 09, 2015, 09:00:21 AM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on January 09, 2015, 08:59:11 AM

Quote from: Kiyohime on January 09, 2015, 08:56:50 AM
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on January 09, 2015, 08:52:02 AM
I'd say it's a byproduct of cognitive thought, but dolphins are notorious rapists.
And humans aren't?
rape culture isn't a thing.

That's because it's called rap culture not rape.

DAS B00T x2 · January 09, 2015, 09:01:41 AM

Quote from: Kiyohime on January 09, 2015, 09:00:21 AM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on January 09, 2015, 08:59:11 AM
Quote from: Kiyohime on January 09, 2015, 08:56:50 AM
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on January 09, 2015, 08:52:02 AM
I'd say it's a byproduct of cognitive thought, but dolphins are notorious rapists.
And humans aren't?
rape culture isn't a thing.
That's because it's called rap culture not rape.

Ah, now that is a serious problem in the world.

Verbatim · January 09, 2015, 09:03:01 AM

Quote from: Dustin xLilD on January 09, 2015, 08:57:44 AM

But why would evolution give us fairness? How does that help us in any way?

Evolution gave us sentience, not fairness. Because the fact is, not everyone thinks fairly. Some people are self-serving, self-interested cunts. We achieved sentience as a complex scheming tool to help us propagate the species more efficiently than any other organism. It's not that evolution is a god who is giving us the ability to perceive this rule-set that it created. We rationally constructed the notion of fairness by ourselves.

Dustin · January 09, 2015, 09:10:39 AM

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Verbatim · January 09, 2015, 09:11:51 AM

I believe so, yes. I'm not a scientist, but I think a case can be made for that.

More Than Mortal · January 09, 2015, 09:18:47 AM

Quote from: Dustin xLilD on January 09, 2015, 09:10:39 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on January 09, 2015, 09:03:01 AM
Quote from: Dustin xLilD on January 09, 2015, 08:57:44 AM
But why would evolution give us fairness? How does that help us in any way?
Evolution gave us sentience, not fairness. Because the fact is, not everyone thinks fairly. Some people are self-serving, self-interested cunts. We achieved sentience as a complex scheming tool to help us propagate the species more efficiently than any other organism. It's not that evolution is a god who is giving us the ability to perceive this rule-set that it created. We rationally constructed the notion of fairness by ourselves.
So there is nothing in our DNA that would cause us to have morality, just the intellect in order to support it?

Well there are genetic traits which would lead us to have the faculties to support moral judgements.

But there isn't an ineffable "moral code" in the genetic framework.

Verbatim · January 09, 2015, 09:20:56 AM

Right. That's why people disagree and fight and argue.

Dustin · January 09, 2015, 09:27:41 AM

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Verbatim · January 09, 2015, 09:31:34 AM

Even if that was the case, why question ethics? They sound like pretty good ideas to me, no matter where they came from.

Dustin · January 09, 2015, 09:34:38 AM

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More Than Mortal · January 09, 2015, 09:38:57 AM

Quote from: Dustin xLilD on January 09, 2015, 09:27:41 AM

Are you sure?

Yes.

The warrior gene reduces empathy and causes psychopathy. There's quite clearly a link between genetic predisposition and moral behaviour.

Although, I agree with you, that isn't the only factor. There are a number of neurological, cultural and environmental things to consider when trying to figure out morality.

More Than Mortal · January 09, 2015, 09:39:48 AM

Quote from: Dustin xLilD on January 09, 2015, 09:34:38 AM

If it is the case that ethics are based on the survival of your society rather than an ideal that we invented, then ethics are objective.

Ethics are objective and are necessarily based on concerns for feeling, thinking, living beings.