Why are liberals so condescending?

Ian · March 29, 2016, 10:56:28 PM

Correction: Republican Federal Politicians are in the business of doing that. Federal representatives are the most out of touch with their constituents, and if you were to poll every single person who is registered under the party you would get more than enough that aren't about restricting freedoms to make that statement false. You might even get members of the party that are part of the minority groups that you claim are being attacked by said party.

Political parties and the people in them aren't as black and white as you're trying to make it out to be.

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 10:45:27 PM

Except nothing I said was wrong. The Republican party is the party of restricting rights and freedoms.

EDIT:

This is a non-issue, the three poorest states in the Union combined have a population eligible to vote and don't have a form of voter ID at less than 1%.

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Remind me which party wants to require ID to vote.

Mad Max · March 29, 2016, 10:58:15 PM

Quote from: Gaara444 on March 29, 2016, 10:56:28 PM

Correction: Republican Federal Politicians are in the business of doing that. Federal representatives are the most out of touch with their constituents, and if you were to poll every single person who is registered under the party you would get more than enough that aren't about restricting freedoms to make that statement false. You might even get members of the party that are part of the minority groups that you claim are being attacked by said party.

Political parties and the people in them aren't as black and white as you're trying to make it out to be.

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 10:45:27 PM
Except nothing I said was wrong. The Republican party is the party of restricting rights and freedoms.

So states like North Carolina and Indiana and Georgia are acting in the best interests, freedoms, and rights of their people with their recent laws against abortion and LGBT protections?

It's not limited to federal politics.

PSU · March 29, 2016, 11:01:13 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 10:58:15 PM

Quote from: Gaara444 on March 29, 2016, 10:56:28 PM
Correction: Republican Federal Politicians are in the business of doing that. Federal representatives are the most out of touch with their constituents, and if you were to poll every single person who is registered under the party you would get more than enough that aren't about restricting freedoms to make that statement false. You might even get members of the party that are part of the minority groups that you claim are being attacked by said party.

Political parties and the people in them aren't as black and white as you're trying to make it out to be.

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 10:45:27 PM
Except nothing I said was wrong. The Republican party is the party of restricting rights and freedoms.
So states like North Carolina and Indiana and Georgia are acting in the best interests, freedoms, and rights of their people with their recent laws against abortion and LGBT protections?

It's not limited to federal politics.

Yes they are. Those laws were looking out for the NORMAL majority.

Ian · March 29, 2016, 11:02:15 PM

This is not a case of bad apples spoiling the tree. Just because every Republican in the state of Mississippi wants to kill all blacks doesn't mean every Republican in Wyoming wants too but that's what your posts are implying. Even if negative opinions represent a majority, you can't just say that everyone in that party is in their for those reasons.

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 10:58:15 PM

So states like North Carolina and Indiana and Georgia are acting in the best interests, freedoms, and rights of their people with their recent laws against abortion and LGBT protections?

It's not limited to federal politics.

Luciana · March 29, 2016, 11:03:48 PM

Quote from: PSU on March 29, 2016, 10:51:22 PM

ITT Liberals get butthurt and prove OP right.

Mad Max · March 29, 2016, 11:04:07 PM

Quote from: Gaara444 on March 29, 2016, 11:02:15 PM

This is not a case of bad apples spoiling the tree. Just because every Republican in the state of Mississippi wants to kill all blacks doesn't mean every Republican in Wyoming wants too but that's what your posts are implying. Even if negative opinions represent a majority, you can't just say that everyone in that party is in their for those reasons. That would be incredibly false.

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 10:58:15 PM
So states like North Carolina and Indiana and Georgia are acting in the best interests, freedoms, and rights of their people with their recent laws against abortion and LGBT protections?

It's not limited to federal politics.

Except for the fact that things like being anti-abortion and anti-lgbt rights are literally part of the Republican platform.

PSU · March 29, 2016, 11:06:49 PM

Quote from: Luciana on March 29, 2016, 11:03:48 PM

Quote from: PSU on March 29, 2016, 10:51:22 PM
ITT Liberals get butthurt and prove OP right.

This is the serious forum moderator.....Please ban yourself.

Ian · March 29, 2016, 11:08:09 PM

I typed in Republican.com so I could look up their agenda, all I got was some activism forum. That's the problem, you're keeping this notion in your head that everyone who is registered under said party is out to get minorities. I can't imagine how you would react if you were to talk to a bisexual Republican.

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 11:04:07 PM

Except for the fact that things like being anti-abortion and anti-lgbt rights are literally part of the Republican platform.

Luciana · March 29, 2016, 11:09:13 PM

I think both sides of the party are just as cancerous as the other if we get down to the roots of it, and honestly, both are similar in the end. Though I will say I find it annoying some Republicans say they want small government, but then they try to issue a state/federal legislative that is insanely restrictive in the eyes of many. Of course I'm talking about abortion. And before you get on me about it, Rand Paul was the one to call out his own party on this during one of the debates, so hats off to that filthy Libertarian. What's the short word for that? Libbie doesn't count.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind the Republican party so much if they'd do 2 things.

1. Stop saying they'll repeal Obamacare and not yet offer anything that's a better replacement than the previous status quo

2. End the obstructionism, but that also applies to the other party to some degree too, though flat out not hearing the new Supreme Court justice is just silly and never been done party wide in the modern era.

Edit: This post is way off topic I just realized. Disregard it.

PSU · March 29, 2016, 11:09:33 PM

http://lesbianconservative.com/about/

Luciana · March 29, 2016, 11:10:42 PM

Oh I forgot to mention that anyone too far left or too far right are both cancerous and idiots in their own regards. Horseshoe theory and all that.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · March 29, 2016, 11:25:30 PM

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ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · March 29, 2016, 11:27:02 PM

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ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · March 29, 2016, 11:42:00 PM

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Luciana · March 29, 2016, 11:50:31 PM

Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on March 29, 2016, 11:27:02 PM

Quote from: Luciana on March 29, 2016, 11:09:13 PM
they want small government, but then they try to issue a state/federal legislative that is insanely restrictive in the eyes of many. Of course I'm talking about abortion.
And in the eyes of many others, including the Republicans themselves, this is only restrictive in the same sense that criminalizing murder is restrictive.

Never thought of it quite like that. Still, it's just something I fundamentally disagree with.

Mad Max · March 30, 2016, 12:06:30 AM

Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on March 29, 2016, 11:42:00 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 10:51:09 PM
Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on March 29, 2016, 10:48:05 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 10:45:27 PM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on March 29, 2016, 09:51:49 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 06:43:10 PM
I'd prefer liberals be condescending towards others instead of conservatives actively denying rights to others.
Thanks for proving my point.
Except nothing I said was wrong. The Republican party is the party of restricting rights and freedoms.
We could talk about why that is objectively not true, but then you'd just accuse Republicans of allowing too many dangerous rights and freedoms.

Instead I'm going to ask you why rights and freedoms matter.
Please remind me which party wants to overturn the SCOTUS rulings on Roe v Wade
The Republicans, in order to protect what they see as a child's right to life.

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and Obergefell v Hodges.
I'll give you that, and I'll also point out that gay marriage doesn't matter. Like, at all.

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Please remind me which party cut the Voting Rights Act?
I'll have to admit that I don't know enough about the VRA or the politics around it to comment, but I doubt it's as simple as the "Basically Republicans don't want blacks to be able to vote" shit Huffpost tried to sell me when I googled it.

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Remind me which party wants to require ID to vote.
This is just being reasonable, and I'd argue that that doesn't go far enough.

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At least Democrats don't have the gall to claim to be the party of liberty and freedom while acting directly against those values.
They do though.

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Rights and freedoms matter because that's the foundation of our country.
And then you'll probably turn around and tell me the 2nd amendment is outdated, and the removal of native americans was a genocide, and the founding fathers were actually bad guys because they owned slaves. There's a lot more to the founding of the United States than those "rights and freedoms" that YOU and your faction consider legitimate. Do not appeal to it unless you are willing to address or embrace those discrepancies.
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We are not longer the United States of America if we turn away from rights and freedoms.
lmao you sound like Rand Paul

thanks for illustrating perfectly how Republicans are the party of restriction of liberty and rights.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · March 30, 2016, 12:12:40 AM

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Mad Max · March 30, 2016, 12:28:20 AM

Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on March 30, 2016, 12:12:40 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on March 30, 2016, 12:06:30 AM
thanks for illustrating perfectly how Republicans are the party of restriction of liberty and rights.
You still haven't addressed why those things would matter, though.

because you can't have democracy without freedom. Might as well be North Korea without it.

More Than Mortal · March 30, 2016, 12:29:20 AM

Quote from: LC on March 29, 2016, 10:37:14 PM

You're only noticing it more because you're on the receiving end of it

No, I haven't. I've seen other people be talked down to--of all political persuasions--more than I myself have been talked down to. I don't even identify as a conservative much outside of close circles. I usually opt for centrist or, when talking to non-Americans, liberal.

It seems like some of your points are based on assumptions, not actual information.

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In case you aren't aware the same is true in the UK for the opposite side of the spectrum and it's called the Shy Labour Factor.

When Labour have a 1992 or 2015 election result then you can tell me how relevant the Shy Labour Factor is for modern British politics.

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I'd also be a bit wary with Haidt, he's been criticized for creating agenda driven studies in the past.

By whom? What agenda does he have? How does this invalidate the methodology used? It's very easy to talk past what I'm saying, without offering a substantive response.

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"Oh the ideology of liberals is easy to follow and requires so little thought"

Except that's not the implication I was making; you're pulling that totally out of thin air. My point was to demonstrate an asymmetry in how conservatives and liberals understand each other. I'm not saying liberalism is so simply that conservatives know exactly what's going on, I'm saying the evidence suggests liberals are incorrect to an important degree in how they evaluate their 'opponents'.

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"Oh conservatives are so much know so much more than those liberals because they have the minority opinion"

I literally haven't even come close to hinting that this is an opinion I hold, or even a respectable thing to think. Stop putting words in my mouth.

More Than Mortal · March 30, 2016, 12:31:31 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 11:04:07 PM

Except for the fact that things like being anti-abortion and anti-lgbt rights are literally part of the Republican platform.

LOG CABIN REPUBLICANS DONT REAL GUYS

More Than Mortal · March 30, 2016, 12:32:55 AM

Quote from: Luciana on March 29, 2016, 11:50:31 PM

Never thought of it quite like that.

What?

America has seen at least some conservatives stand outside abortion clinic with signs saying "abortion is murder", and you've only just now thought that some conservatives might see abortion as tantamount to murder? Even if you disagree with it?

Mad Max · March 30, 2016, 12:36:14 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on March 30, 2016, 12:31:31 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 11:04:07 PM
Except for the fact that things like being anti-abortion and anti-lgbt rights are literally part of the Republican platform.
LOG CABIN REPUBLICANS DONT REAL GUYS

was that supposed to be a sentence?

More Than Mortal · March 30, 2016, 12:38:11 AM

Quote from: Yulius Kaisar on March 29, 2016, 11:25:30 PM

Quote from: Luciana on March 29, 2016, 11:10:42 PM
Oh I forgot to mention that anyone too far left or too far right are both cancerous and idiots in their own regards. Horseshoe theory and all that.
muh moderation muh common sense muh

Conservatives who aren't moderates aren't really conservatives. Political moderation is good procedurally, if not explicitly ideologically. You can be an ancrap or a theocrat or whatever and I won't really give a fuck, it's a problem when people start trying to tear down established institutions to reach their goal.

More Than Mortal · March 30, 2016, 12:40:09 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on March 30, 2016, 12:36:14 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on March 30, 2016, 12:31:31 AM
Quote from: Mad Max on March 29, 2016, 11:04:07 PM
Except for the fact that things like being anti-abortion and anti-lgbt rights are literally part of the Republican platform.
LOG CABIN REPUBLICANS DONT REAL GUYS
was that supposed to be a sentence?

It was supposed to be an expression of my annoyance that you're deliberately choosing to ignore an organisation which is active in 26 states for the expressed purpose of advanced LGBT rights in the GOP.

Luciana · March 30, 2016, 01:15:58 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on March 30, 2016, 12:32:55 AM

Quote from: Luciana on March 29, 2016, 11:50:31 PM
Never thought of it quite like that.
What?

America has seen at least some conservatives stand outside abortion clinic with signs saying "abortion is murder", and you've only just now thought that some conservatives might see abortion as tantamount to murder? Even if you disagree with it?

No, you completely misread it. I was talking about the invasion and double standard of wanting "small government" while trying their best to get rid of abortion entirely which is a pretty big government thing.

You'd have to be completely brain dead for someone to not realize they feel it's murder. I personally don't stand on that side of the fence.

More Than Mortal · March 30, 2016, 01:19:12 AM

Quote from: Luciana on March 30, 2016, 01:15:58 AM

You'd have to be completely brain dead for someone to not realize they feel it's murder.

Thank God.

Had to clarify; apologies for misunderstanding.

big sponge · March 30, 2016, 01:27:37 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on March 30, 2016, 12:29:20 AM

Great moogly booglies I for some reason seem to have combined the posts you and Irish made when reading this thread.

Disregard me.

In regards to Hiadt though the big one was by the president of the international association of political psychologists. Hiadt apparently as a history of trying to "tear down and ridicule liberals" with his research. The only reason I know this is because I've seen what you've linked before in other discussions where people tried to claim some sort of air of superiority over liberals due to his research.

More Than Mortal · March 30, 2016, 04:04:42 AM

Quote from: LC on March 30, 2016, 01:27:37 AM

Hiadt apparently as a history of trying to "tear down and ridicule liberals" with his research.

Being familiar with Haidt's work, as well as his political activities, I'm fairly confident in saying this isn't true. Haidt's current work focuses mainly on studying partisanship, promoting viewpoint diversity in the social sciences and facilitating cross-spectrum discussion and deliberation on policy. (He's also currently writing a book on capitalism which explores the two narratives of "exploitation" and "liberation" on both the Left and Right).

I can kind of see why some people would use Haidt's work as a political weapon--and why some would see Haidt as a political figure--but he really isn't. He's pretty much a centrist.

Flee · March 30, 2016, 06:17:37 AM

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Turkey · March 30, 2016, 07:06:17 AM

Responding only to the premise in the OP, I think this correlates to another bit of research posted on here, concluding something along the lines of conservatives being more able to understand their opponents' viewpoints rather than make some mental caricature of it. Understanding where someone is coming from, and still disagreeing, seems like it would lead to less condescension.

Of course conservatives do it too, but it does feel like it's to a lesser extent, though that could just be a result of under-representation in media.