Reports: ISIS committing ethnic cleansing and genocide in Iraq

Anonymous (User Deleted) · August 14, 2015, 05:41:48 PM

Amnesty International released a report accusing ISIS of committing an ethnic cleansing in Iraq. The United Nations agreed with that assertion at the time.

Several months later, the UN released its own report, this time accusing ISIS of genocide.

This may come as little surprise considering that Saddam Hussein's former operatives are helming ISIS and would likely share a similar agenda.

This all begs the the question: Just what has the Iraq War accomplished? It's cost over $2 trillion, and has claimed the lives of nearly 4,500 US troops and left over 32,000 troops injured (which itself is a significant burden, costing the US around $134.7 billion as of 2013, and will continue to increase for the rest of their lives), and about 134,000 Iraqi civilian deaths, all just to get one guy--although his followers and successors are continuing a similar agenda beyond his death.

When we get past the fearmongering, the lies and coverups of WMDs, and the premature declarations of victory, the only justification left seems to be ending the human rights abuses of a morally bankrupt dictatorship. Presenting this argument as the primary rationale for the invasion is revisionist at best, as the supporters of the war only resorted to that argument when all the others failed to withstand scrutiny. But either way, in retrospect, it seems to have been for naught, because it seems as if the human rights situation in Iraq has only regressed since Saddam's ouster. ISIS comes across as a bit more unhinged than the Hussein administration ever was.

(Even if the situation were looking better, the human rights argument in this context would still be logically problematic, given that there were other abuses taking place too, but only Iraq got any mentionable amount of attention from the West.)

The US will be tied to ensuring stability in the Middle East for years to come--what has the war actually accomplished that isn't invalidated by the aftermath?

August 14, 2015, 05:47:12 PM

1.) Get 500k soldiers and send them to Iraq
2.) Wipe out ISIS in two weeks
3.) Go home

No need to "ensure stability" or "rebuild the region" or any of that. ISIS just needs to be eliminated.

challengerX · August 14, 2015, 05:52:28 PM

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aREALgod · August 14, 2015, 06:01:22 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 05:47:12 PM

1.) Get 500k soldiers and send them to Iraq
2.) Wipe out ISIS in two weeks
3.) Go home

No need to "ensure stability" or "rebuild the region" or any of that. ISIS just needs to be eliminated.

Nukes would do the same, but quicker.

Turkey · August 14, 2015, 06:14:14 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 05:47:12 PM

No need to "ensure stability" or "rebuild the region" or any of that. ISIS just needs to be eliminated.

This is literally the mentality that allowed ISIS to grow in the region.

August 14, 2015, 06:24:59 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 14, 2015, 06:14:14 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 05:47:12 PM
No need to "ensure stability" or "rebuild the region" or any of that. ISIS just needs to be eliminated.

This is literally the mentality that allowed ISIS to grow in the region.

"ISIS needs to be eliminated" is the mentality that allowed ISIS to grow?

Makes sense.

August 14, 2015, 06:25:35 PM

Quote from: challengerX on August 14, 2015, 05:52:28 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 05:47:12 PM
1.) Get 500k soldiers and send them to Iraq
2.) Wipe out ISIS in two weeks
3.) Go home

No need to "ensure stability" or "rebuild the region" or any of that. ISIS just needs to be eliminated.
But GMOs

Oh my god, I'm against GMOs and have other political beliefs? That's insane.

challengerX · August 14, 2015, 06:26:15 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Turkey · August 14, 2015, 06:30:37 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 06:24:59 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 14, 2015, 06:14:14 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 05:47:12 PM
No need to "ensure stability" or "rebuild the region" or any of that. ISIS just needs to be eliminated.

This is literally the mentality that allowed ISIS to grow in the region.
"ISIS needs to be eliminated" is the mentality that allowed ISIS to grow?

Makes sense.

No, I'm talking about the mentality that we can eliminate a terrorist group and then just leave. It's just naive.

August 14, 2015, 06:32:03 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 14, 2015, 06:30:37 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 06:24:59 PM
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 14, 2015, 06:14:14 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 05:47:12 PM
No need to "ensure stability" or "rebuild the region" or any of that. ISIS just needs to be eliminated.

This is literally the mentality that allowed ISIS to grow in the region.
"ISIS needs to be eliminated" is the mentality that allowed ISIS to grow?

Makes sense.

No, I'm talking about the mentality that we can eliminate a terrorist group and then just leave. It's just naive.

We can. It takes years, maybe even decades, for terrorist groups to get enough power to actually pose a threat to America. Who cares what's going on in the Middle East? We only need to deal with threats that affect us. Anything else is waste of our resources.

Sandtrap · August 14, 2015, 06:41:41 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 05:47:12 PM

1.) Get 500k soldiers and send them to Iraq
2.) Wipe out ISIS in two weeks
3.) Go home

No need to "ensure stability" or "rebuild the region" or any of that. ISIS just needs to be eliminated.

Or alternatively, pull every soldier out of the region, shut all fucking air traffic and travel down in that region, and essentially box the place closed shut.

For starters, there's no conventional winning against guerilla warfare. It's a grueling affair that will last for months, if not years, and if there is even any trace of ISIS left, then they'll only start again. There's always holdouts somewhere.

Second, assuming that by some ungodly chance there's a "victory," what happens when all the soldiers are pulled out? The same shit.

The middle east is a region that's not going to be fixed with outside influence or even aid. It's proven that it just can't stand up on its own two feet yet. Shut down all fucking traffic to that region, enforce a border, and box everybody in there, and let them sort their own shit out.

You say 500,000 troops right?

Put those 500,000 troops on a border watch and redivert current military expendetures on enforcing that border, and shut everything down. Things will either sort themselves out with time, or, ISIS will grow ballsy and attack the border.

In which case that's when you drop the hammer.

Turkey · August 14, 2015, 06:44:24 PM

Quote from: ⁭⁭⁭⁭ on August 14, 2015, 06:41:41 PM

shut all fucking air traffic and travel down in that region, and essentially box the place closed shut.

And then the oil market crashes and we face a global depression.

Mr. Psychologist · August 14, 2015, 06:49:00 PM

Kill em all and let god sort em out doesn't really work well here.

Help the region to do it's own dirty work for once has a better shot really, if it's the west vs the caliphate - gee gee on validating their cause. If it's muslims vs muslims vs arabs vs iranians vs turks then at the very least it's a sufficiently muddied situation to stop the nice easy propaganda train <_<

Alternatively to beat the dead and dying horse, we should have either propped assad up or let the russians do that in the first place. Not get half involved and turn syria into a total fucking mess that allowed ISIS to germinate.

Sandtrap · August 14, 2015, 07:09:55 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 14, 2015, 06:44:24 PM

Quote from: ⁭⁭⁭⁭ on August 14, 2015, 06:41:41 PM
shut all fucking air traffic and travel down in that region, and essentially box the place closed shut.

And then the oil market crashes and we face a global depression.

Tough shit then. That's what we get for building an interlinked system compounded on failures. We get some neat upsides, but if one single domino completely flops then the whole thing starts to fold.

Turkey · August 14, 2015, 07:17:13 PM

Quote from: ⁭⁭⁭⁭ on August 14, 2015, 07:09:55 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 14, 2015, 06:44:24 PM
Quote from: ⁭⁭⁭⁭ on August 14, 2015, 06:41:41 PM
shut all fucking air traffic and travel down in that region, and essentially box the place closed shut.

And then the oil market crashes and we face a global depression.

Tough shit then. That's what we get for building an interlinked system compounded on failures. We get some neat upsides, but if one single domino completely flops then the whole thing starts to fold.

It's not about a single domino, it's about the stability of a whole region that that the world relies upon for oil. It's not something to be flippant about.

Sandtrap · August 14, 2015, 07:28:24 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 14, 2015, 07:17:13 PM

Quote from: ⁭⁭⁭⁭ on August 14, 2015, 07:09:55 PM
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 14, 2015, 06:44:24 PM
Quote from: ⁭⁭⁭⁭ on August 14, 2015, 06:41:41 PM
shut all fucking air traffic and travel down in that region, and essentially box the place closed shut.

And then the oil market crashes and we face a global depression.

Tough shit then. That's what we get for building an interlinked system compounded on failures. We get some neat upsides, but if one single domino completely flops then the whole thing starts to fold.

It's not about a single domino, it's about the stability of a whole region that that the world relies upon for oil. It's not something to be flippant about.

And how much longer is that handy little oil well going to last? 30-40 years? 100 years? Eventually, that well is going to stop. How much longer are we going squander time away on half assed dysfunctional systems? Are we gonna wait until the well runs dry and then start panicking, trying to make some sudden turnover at the last minute?

But I hear you. Oil is used for all sorts of things and in our current system, as shitty as it may be, oil is rather important for the means of mass production, or anything large scale.

But that region isn't going to be settled down anytime soon. Not with the measures being taken against it currently. And it's not gonna get any prettier either.

Super Irish · August 14, 2015, 08:34:12 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 06:32:03 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 14, 2015, 06:30:37 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 06:24:59 PM
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 14, 2015, 06:14:14 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 05:47:12 PM
No need to "ensure stability" or "rebuild the region" or any of that. ISIS just needs to be eliminated.

This is literally the mentality that allowed ISIS to grow in the region.
"ISIS needs to be eliminated" is the mentality that allowed ISIS to grow?

Makes sense.

No, I'm talking about the mentality that we can eliminate a terrorist group and then just leave. It's just naive.
We can. It takes years, maybe even decades, for terrorist groups to get enough power to actually pose a threat to America. Who cares what's going on in the Middle East? We only need to deal with threats that affect us. Anything else is waste of our resources.

Ah, taking the stance of isolation. That's never come back to cause problems. has it?

August 14, 2015, 09:16:00 PM

Quote from: SuperIrish on August 14, 2015, 08:34:12 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 06:32:03 PM
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 14, 2015, 06:30:37 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 06:24:59 PM
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 14, 2015, 06:14:14 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 14, 2015, 05:47:12 PM
No need to "ensure stability" or "rebuild the region" or any of that. ISIS just needs to be eliminated.

This is literally the mentality that allowed ISIS to grow in the region.
"ISIS needs to be eliminated" is the mentality that allowed ISIS to grow?

Makes sense.

No, I'm talking about the mentality that we can eliminate a terrorist group and then just leave. It's just naive.
We can. It takes years, maybe even decades, for terrorist groups to get enough power to actually pose a threat to America. Who cares what's going on in the Middle East? We only need to deal with threats that affect us. Anything else is waste of our resources.

Ah, taking the stance of isolation. That's never come back to cause problems. has it?

It hasn't. America was only truly isolationist for a very short period of time.