Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:15:32 PMNice one! Maybe actually formulate some kind of argument next time, though?See, I would, but I can't. You're just saying shit and passing it off as substantial. What the fuck am I meant to say to utter platitudes like "Humanity's greatest threat is itself" which literally everybody has known since the 40s, and then conclusions somehow drawn from that like "What we need is more love". You haven't said anything worth responding to. It's just the same bullshit New Age-esque talking points that don't get anybody fucking anywhere.
Nice one! Maybe actually formulate some kind of argument next time, though?
If you recognize that humanity's greatest threat is itself, and then go onto say that love for everyone wouldn't solve a thing, then you're just retarded.
And by the way, if you value progress more than peace, you're a shitty person.
If you recognize that humanity's greatest threat is itself, and then go onto say that love for everyone wouldn't solve a thing, then you're just retarded. The leaders we have in power dictate what kind of society we have. If you want this classist, warlike, fear-mongering world, then by all means, keep supporting the status quo. If you want a society that's as close to a utopia as we can get, then our leaders need to reflect that. And passing off my entire argument as a platitude is fucking ridiculous. It's not a bullshit talking point, it's how the world needs to be.
Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:21:45 PMIf you recognize that humanity's greatest threat is itself, and then go onto say that love for everyone wouldn't solve a thing, then you're just retarded.I didn't say it wouldn't solve anything. . . I said it's a stupidly unrealistic thing to shoot for. We aren't wired to love everybody, never mind all the social technologies like religion and political ideologies that you're not going to get rid of any time soon. My entire moral matrix is based on the expansion of human well-being, so don't pretend like I'm being deliberately obtuse and supporting the status quo out of some apish desire to have people keep on dying.
Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:22:52 PMAnd by the way, if you value progress more than peace, you're a shitty person.Not really; if going to war with Iraq and having 100,000 civilians die at whoever's hands meant we could cure cancer, I'd pick up a rifle and start shooting myself.
What am I supposed to use in their place?
Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:21:45 PMIf you recognize that humanity's greatest threat is itself, and then go onto say that love for everyone wouldn't solve a thing, then you're just retarded. The leaders we have in power dictate what kind of society we have. If you want this classist, warlike, fear-mongering world, then by all means, keep supporting the status quo. If you want a society that's as close to a utopia as we can get, then our leaders need to reflect that. And passing off my entire argument as a platitude is fucking ridiculous. It's not a bullshit talking point, it's how the world needs to be.To be fair, even if we got everyone to "love" each other in the first world, that's not going to stop ISIL.And other extremist groups who are openly hostile towards concepts like freedom and love.You don't stop them by saying, "Could you please chill out? Smoke a bowl or something? We're trying to have, like, peace, and stuff."
It's only because of people like you
Yay, worthless hypotheticals.
Even the most compassionate and loving leaders recognize when a group needs to be taken care of. People like IS stand in the way of global unification and peace, and they obviously need to be dealt with. Violence isn't always immoral, and when someone stands in the way of the greater good, they've brought their fate on themselves.I'm more talking about how our governments fuck over people who have done no wrong, to progress the nation and other buzzwords. Things like supporting GMOs, letting evil organizations like the WTO run free, those are the acts that would be eliminated if we had a shift of consciousness and elected leaders who didn't have this apish "you or me" mentality.
Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:28:35 PMIt's only because of people like youYes, damn me, it's my fault not everybody loves each other. It's got absolutely nothing to do with the fact that we're basically no better than chimpanzees biologically. . .
Things like supporting GMOs, letting evil organizations like the WTO run free, those are the acts that would be eliminated if we had a shift of consciousness and elected leaders who didn't have this apish "you or me" mentality.
Quote from: The Meta Order on December 23, 2015, 09:32:15 PMQuote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:28:35 PMIt's only because of people like youYes, damn me, it's my fault not everybody loves each other. It's got absolutely nothing to do with the fact that we're basically no better than chimpanzees biologically. . .
I honestly have no idea why I even discuss things with you in Serious
"You need to be a master of economics to see the blatantly evil shit that the government does on a daily basis"
Quote from: The Meta Order on December 23, 2015, 09:34:32 PMI honestly have no idea why I even discuss things with you in SeriousSame, all you do is suck the dick of our corporate masters and spout out the conservative rhetoric.
Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:35:31 PM"You need to be a master of economics to see the blatantly evil shit that the government does on a daily basis"No, I'm saying you need to have a minor grasp of the field to be able to call the WTO even inept or neutral. You need to have a pretty solid grasp of trade and institutional economics to be able to call them actively damaging (which, by the way is an opinion I hold of the World Bank based on the work of development economists). It's a whole other ballpark to call them actively evil.
It fights tooth and nail against trade unions, which are arguably the last bastions of people who actually give a shit about workers and the poor.
Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:37:11 PMQuote from: The Meta Order on December 23, 2015, 09:34:32 PMI honestly have no idea why I even discuss things with you in SeriousSame, all you do is suck the dick of our corporate masters and spout out the conservative rhetoric.That must be why I call Bernie Sanders evil and think all liberals want to do is just undermine the glorious and faultless West. . . Oh, wait, I'm not batshit insane like you. SpoilerNot sure how pretty strongly liberal views on criminal justice, the War on Drugs and immigration fits into your paradigm of me being a conservative shill spouting rhetoric. . . But whatever man.
Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:39:46 PMIt fights tooth and nail against trade unions, which are arguably the last bastions of people who actually give a shit about workers and the poor.It must be easy viewing the world through a black-and-white lens. In some ways, I envy your childlike conception of reality.
I haven't called a single individual evil, so that point is idiotic. Organizations are evil. Politicians are usually just selfish and inept.
Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:41:28 PMI haven't called a single individual evil, so that point is idiotic. Organizations are evil. Politicians are usually just selfish and inept.I also envy your ability to split hairs so finely.
that's the spectrum of serious forum right-wingedness, in order of descending right-wingedness
The only area I could be called seriously conservative is culturally
Door ... a libertarian