And by the way, if you value progress more than peace, you're a shitty person.

And by the way, if you value progress more than peace, you're a shitty person.

Not really; if going to war with Iraq and having 100,000 civilians die at whoever's hands meant we could cure cancer, I'd pick up a rifle and start shooting myself.

Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:21:45 PM

If you recognize that humanity's greatest threat is itself, and then go onto say that love for everyone wouldn't solve a thing, then you're just retarded.

I didn't say it wouldn't solve anything. . . I said it's a stupidly unrealistic thing to shoot for. We aren't wired to love everybody, never mind all the social technologies like religion and political ideologies that you're not going to get rid of any time soon. My entire moral matrix is based on the expansion of human well-being, so don't pretend like I'm being deliberately obtuse and supporting the status quo out of some apish desire to have people keep on dying.

It's entirely realistic. It's only because of people like you, who cling onto this dying belief about the strong and the weak and all of that nonsense that we're not progressing emotionally as a species.

Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:22:52 PM

And by the way, if you value progress more than peace, you're a shitty person.

Not really; if going to war with Iraq and having 100,000 civilians die at whoever's hands meant we could cure cancer, I'd pick up a rifle and start shooting myself.

Yay, worthless hypotheticals.

Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:21:45 PM

If you recognize that humanity's greatest threat is itself, and then go onto say that love for everyone wouldn't solve a thing, then you're just retarded. The leaders we have in power dictate what kind of society we have. If you want this classist, warlike, fear-mongering world, then by all means, keep supporting the status quo. If you want a society that's as close to a utopia as we can get, then our leaders need to reflect that. And passing off my entire argument as a platitude is fucking ridiculous. It's not a bullshit talking point, it's how the world needs to be.

To be fair, even if we got everyone to "love" each other in the first world, that's not going to stop ISIL.

And other extremist groups who are openly hostile towards concepts like freedom and love.

You don't stop them by saying, "Could you please chill out? Smoke a bowl or something? We're trying to have, like, peace, and stuff."

Even the most compassionate and loving leaders recognize when a group needs to be taken care of. People like IS stand in the way of global unification and peace, and they obviously need to be dealt with. Violence isn't always immoral, and when someone stands in the way of the greater good, they've brought their fate on themselves.

I'm more talking about how our governments fuck over people who have done no wrong, to progress the nation and other buzzwords. Things like supporting GMOs, letting evil organizations like the WTO run free, those are the acts that would be eliminated if we had a shift of consciousness and elected leaders who didn't have this apish "you or me" mentality.

Even the most compassionate and loving leaders recognize when a group needs to be taken care of. People like IS stand in the way of global unification and peace, and they obviously need to be dealt with. Violence isn't always immoral, and when someone stands in the way of the greater good, they've brought their fate on themselves.

I'm more talking about how our governments fuck over people who have done no wrong, to progress the nation and other buzzwords. Things like supporting GMOs, letting evil organizations like the WTO run free, those are the acts that would be eliminated if we had a shift of consciousness and elected leaders who didn't have this apish "you or me" mentality.

Fair enough, I suppose.

Things like supporting GMOs, letting evil organizations like the WTO run free, those are the acts that would be eliminated if we had a shift of consciousness and elected leaders who didn't have this apish "you or me" mentality.

Tell me all about how much biology and economics and political science you've studied. . .

Oh, wait, can you hear that?

Chugga chugga chugga

It's the black helicopters.




I honestly have no idea why I even discuss things with you in Serious; you always end up making ridiculously stupid points and calling people and organisations and technologies you find distasteful "evil" despite the fact that you have absolutely no solid empirical evidence--or even experience in those fields--to support your outlandish claims. But, hey, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. . .

"You need to be a master of economics to see the blatantly evil shit that the government does on a daily basis"

"You need to be a master of economics to see the blatantly evil shit that the government does on a daily basis"

No, I'm saying you need to have a minor grasp of the field to be able to call the WTO even inept or neutral. You need to have a pretty solid grasp of trade and institutional economics to be able to call them actively damaging (which, by the way is an opinion I hold of the World Bank based on the work of development economists). It's a whole other ballpark to call them actively evil.

Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:35:31 PM

"You need to be a master of economics to see the blatantly evil shit that the government does on a daily basis"

No, I'm saying you need to have a minor grasp of the field to be able to call the WTO even inept or neutral. You need to have a pretty solid grasp of trade and institutional economics to be able to call them actively damaging (which, by the way is an opinion I hold of the World Bank based on the work of development economists). It's a whole other ballpark to call them actively evil.

It fights tooth and nail against trade unions, which are arguably the last bastions of people who actually give a shit about workers and the poor.

Quote from: SecondClass on December 23, 2015, 09:37:11 PM

Quote from: The Meta Order on December 23, 2015, 09:34:32 PM

I honestly have no idea why I even discuss things with you in Serious

Same, all you do is suck the dick of our corporate masters and spout out the conservative rhetoric.

That must be why I call Bernie Sanders evil and think all liberals want to do is just undermine the glorious and faultless West. . . 

Oh, wait, I'm not batshit insane like you.

Spoiler

Not sure how pretty strongly liberal views on criminal justice, the War on Drugs and immigration fits into your paradigm of me being a conservative shill spouting rhetoric. . . But whatever man.

I haven't called a single individual evil, so that point is idiotic. Organizations are evil. Politicians are usually just selfish and inept.

I haven't called a single individual evil, so that point is idiotic. Organizations are evil. Politicians are usually just selfish and inept.

I also envy your ability to split hairs so finely.

Paging Dr. House. . .

I'd put Meta, Mordo, and Turkey as the shit beliefs trifecta

Slash and Door aren't that bad, IMO. And I'd consider Door more of a libertarian than a conservative.

I see that I need to step up my national socialist posting.

Door ... a libertarian

Anarchists are not libertarians.