Quote from: Dietrich Six on October 12, 2018, 06:16:54 AM

Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 09:56:31 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on October 11, 2018, 09:30:40 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 04:07:03 PM

Quote from: Rescue on October 11, 2018, 03:11:17 PM

People like Challenger who have no ability to comprehend why some people may see things differently and then characterize them as stupid sheep who are beneath him is ironically funny and already have their answers if they would bother to look in a mirror

Trump voters literally are stupid sheep. You’re voting for some rich kid who wasted all of his dads money and failed in everything he tried to do, and he’s working for the Russians. He’s not some average joe who became president.

Beyond that I don’t give a fuck what you “think” about.

Trump is worth 3.5 billion, how exactly has he wasted all his Daddy's money and failed at everything he does? He became the fucking president by running a joke campaign.

LOL

Why do you think he’s a puppet for the Russians dumbass. He went to them for money after nobody else would loan him any.

He's worth 5.3 billion, he doesn't need a small loan of a million dollars.

Wow 1.8 billion overnight absolutely based

Rip me dyslexia

So as much as I want to believe that Trump just managed to get the support of the "moderates" that could just as well be swayed the other way, I find it increasingly difficult to do so.

But he did though. It's been estimated that a significant number of people that voted for Obama also voted for Trump. Is the implication that these people were really radical right-wingers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama-Trump_voters

Quote from: Aether on October 13, 2018, 12:46:38 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 13, 2018, 12:16:00 PM

Quote from: Aether on October 13, 2018, 11:06:58 AM

Quote from: Flee on October 13, 2018, 10:53:23 AM

I don't want to get into big discussion over what moderates actually are. The crux of my argument was based on swing voters which a lot of moderates are. It doesn't really matter what constitutes a moderate, there are still people who will vote either way and you don't convince those people by acting uncivil towards them.

”It doesn’t really matter that I’m wrong, I still think I’m right”

My whole point was that there are people who will vote either way and the left shouldn't be insulting to them. I wasn't trying to argue over what is or is not a moderate. I was only using it as a descriptor for people torn between the two parties.

I don't understand why you want me to admit I was wrong about what a moderate is so much, when I never even implied my idea of what a moderate is was the only right one. I don't even have a very specific idea of what constitutes being politically moderate. It was just a general term I used for people who aren't strictly partisan. Flee's idea is almost certainly way more thought out and refined than mine, and I'm not gonna act like I know enough to tell him he's wrong, especially because I was never trying to argue over what a moderate actually is.

My whole argument in the second half of this thread was never once, "I know what moderates actually are." It was always, "these types of people exist, regardless of how we want to label them, and we shouldn't attack them as voters "

I don't know how much more clear I can be than that. If you still want to attribute some sort of attitude to me that I don't actually have then I don't know what else to say.

You should know what a moderate is when you’re saying a large amount of them voted for a guy who is extremely partisan and trash talks all his opposition. You’re only pointing it the flaws in your argument by continuing this notion that level headed intelligent people voted for trump. This isn’t to say people that voted for Hillary are inherently more intelligent, but there is obviously a clear cut difference here and you’re pretending it doesn’t exist.

The way I'm trying to describe certain people that voted for Trump is that they have the capacity to vote the other way. I'm not going to act like I know what kind of people that everyone who voted for Trump are. There's no way I could ever know that. I also never stated that there's no difference between the two sides, I don't know where you're getting that from.

There are people who were and are torn between both sides of the political spectrum. I used the term moderate to describe them. Perhaps someone with that position who sided with Trump isn't moderate. Maybe they were before but the current state of things shifted them to a more partisan stance. It's just not the point of my argument, at all. What you want to label the swing voters that voted for Trump doesn't really have any bearing on fact that they exist. That is what I'm saying and have been this entire time.

I don't understand why you keep focusing on what I think a moderate actually is. No I don't feel like everyone that voted for Trump is a complete moron, I just think a lot people felt like they were driven to do something drastic, and I'm sure a lot of people have regrets over it now. I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise, here. It's futile to even attempt that, especially with you and others who have such a negative opinion of Trump voters. It just doesn't matter, swing voters are still a thing, period. Call them what you want. Believe they are idiots, or don't. They still exist.

I won't even call them moderates anymore if you'll get over this weird issue you have with what I've been saying.

They don’t exist in a large enough quantity to give a fuck about. These aren’t the people that got trump in office, and they’re not the ones who are gonna get him out of there either. It’s his loyal and devoted cult following.

There is nothing moderate about you if you voted for trump. You may not necessarily be radical in your views, but you are highly ignorant, misinformed, and prone to bigoted views as that’s what trump is all about.

Alright, whatever man, Trump voters are a radical moronic cult of bigots. I still think it's a terrible idea for a party to be insulting to the voters.

Quote from: Aether on October 13, 2018, 05:12:32 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 13, 2018, 04:58:02 PM

They don’t exist in a large enough quantity to give a fuck about. These aren’t the people that got trump in office, and they’re not the ones who are gonna get him out of there either. It’s his loyal and devoted cult following.

There is nothing moderate about you if you voted for trump. You may not necessarily be radical in your views, but you are highly ignorant, misinformed, and prone to bigoted views as that’s what trump is all about.

Alright, whatever man, Trump voters are a radical moronic cult of bigots. I still think it's a terrible idea for a party to be insulting to the voters.

What exactly do you think trump voters are? Did your mom vote for him or some shit?

Whoever it is you feel the need to defend, they’re ignorant and misinformed. I’m not saying this makes them bad people, or deserving of insults. I never said I agree with any politicians insulting anybody or Hillary’s “deplorable” comment. But you need to realize people that voted for trump are not really people that are going to vote democrat, nor are they that large of a group. People that voted for Obama expecting radical change were imbecilic then and they still are now for thinking trump would deliver on that because he’s an “outsider” when he’s another rich kid in bed with everyone.

Trump voters can defend themselves. The only thing I was defending in this thread was the value of civility.

And what are you talking about "the people that voted for trump aren't that large of a group?" Nearly half of the country voted for him. Are you trying to say that the swing voters that voted for Trump aren't that large of a group? I don't know how big exactly that group is but I'm willing to bet it's at least in the millions considering the percentage of voters that are swing voters. Maybe that isn't all that significant to you but you also have to consider the potential voters that abstained or the independent/third party voters that may be turned away from any side that starts doing away with civility.

It's just not good for democrats to be attacking the voting base, and we shouldn't be tossing out values like civility just to beat the other side, especially if it's likely going to make things worse for your side. Acting with incivility is just going to further radicalize our society and drive a wedge deeper between it. It's not a good thing, at all.

That's what I'm saying here, and it seems like you at least understand that point, though you may not entirely agree; I'm not sure. I didn't post in this thread to tell anyone that their idea of who Trump voters are is wrong. If I actually wanted to defend them then I would've said a lot more than just, "I don't see them the same way as you."

What are you talking about? What would I even need to disguise? And I never claimed that either party was more or less civilized than the other. It's fine if you don't care how I feel about Trump supporters because I haven't been trying to defend them or change your opinion of them. I specifically said that it would be a futile effort to attempt that, so I wouldn't bother with it.

I said why I thought advocating for incivility was a bad idea in both a practical and principled sense. That's all I was ever trying to say in this thread, there's nothing more to it. I think it's a bad idea for the left to embrace it, I think it's a bad idea for the right to embrace it, I think it's bad that Trump is embracing it, and I wish more politicians would try to maintain values like civility that sustain our society. Agree or disagree. It's whatever at this point.

I've never met a single Trump supporter who was also a good person.

“I’m not a radical I swear”

Quote from: Rescue on October 14, 2018, 01:28:50 AM

Quote from: Eli on October 14, 2018, 01:24:02 AM

I've never met a single Trump supporter who was also a good person.

“I’m not a radical I swear”

I didn't say I wasn't a radical.

People who support Trump are often preemptively covering their own asses for predatory behaviour, racism, and/or greed. The rest are either stupid or just under a great misapprehension.

Characterizing half the country as racists without a good bone in their body just because of how they voted on a single election is a bit far don’t you think

I'd support Kanye West over any Democratic candidate.

At the end of the day, let's all remind ourselves that Snake is >a fucking leaf and probably never has met a trump voter in person.

At the end of the day, let's all remind ourselves that Snake is >a fucking leaf and probably never has met a trump voter in person.

I tried already, Chally just got back to the US too.