Where the hell was this version of Hillary Clinton before?

Aether · October 11, 2018, 02:24:30 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 02:08:52 PM

Quote from: Aether on October 11, 2018, 01:53:21 PM
Saying that absolutely no one who voted for Trump would have voted for Hillary is an absolute.
So why didn’t they? Why did they all vote for trump?

Quote
My point about moderates is based on the fact that swing voters exist, and traditionally always have. Both sides are moving away from each other and the percentage of swing voters is declining, but they still count. Trump was able to sway a lot of them to his side when he embraced a populist campaign.
LOL

The crazy shit he was saying was not populist. He was appealing to bigoted and fearful whites, which this country is full of. That’s how he won, as well as self hating minorities that want to be white.

Quote
I'm not trying to say Hillary would've been able to win somehow by swaying swing voters. I think she was an awful candidate with way too much controversial baggage, and she made a huge mistake by insulting voters and playing the game of identity politics. What I'm saying is the left needs a candidate that can actually attract moderates.
Where were all these moderates when trump was elected? How can you look at trump as a “moderate” and say hmm, this guy is better than Hillary.

All I ever heard Trump talking about in his campaign was, "Jobs jobs jobs," and , "we need better immigration control." Which a huge percentage of the population obviously cares about or they wouldn't have voted for him. What makes an issue populist if not being something that a giant portion of the average population cares about? You can have both left populist ideas like healthcare for all, or right populist ideas like stronger immigration laws.

I don't want to get into how awful Trump is and how vile everyone who voted for him is. Whatever idea you have of half of this country isn't something I'm gonna change anytime soon and it's not really useful to the point I was making.

All I'm trying to say is that there are people who voted for Trump who will vote the other way, Democrats need to appeal to those people, and they aren't going to do it by being insulting to them.

If all you want to reply back to that now is, "every Trump voter is far right," then I don't really have anything else to discuss here.

challengerX · October 11, 2018, 02:49:09 PM

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Ingy · October 11, 2018, 03:11:17 PM

People like Challenger who have no ability to comprehend why some people may see things differently and then characterize them as stupid sheep who are beneath him is ironically funny and already have their answers if they would bother to look in a mirror

Aether · October 11, 2018, 03:26:13 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 02:49:09 PM

Now you're saying we just don't agree on what populism is. It's defined as "support for the concerns of ordinary people" and if ordinary people are concerned with something like immigration and Trump is appealing to those concerns then I'd say he's being populist. The definition doesn't establish that whatever concern has to be good or bad, just that it's one held by the general population. I don't want to get into what populism actually is, it seems like so many arguments just end up over semantics.

Your refutation of my point has seemingly been, "all Trump voters are far right," which I obviously don't agree with, and all I'm saying is that if that's the message Democrats want to convey to voters then they're going to lose swing voters that actually have a chance of voting the other way. I never said that shouldn't appeal to other people as well, the only thing I've really said is that they shouldn't insult any of the voters and should focus on policy, and that our society shouldn't be tossing values like civility away for the sake of winning.

I'm not some "intelligent centrist," that's just some idea you seem to be generating because I don't agree with you I guess? I never once implied you or Verb or Eli were "lowly" because I didn't agree. I don't think I'll ever understand this perception that I'm acting condescending you have when I disagree with you. Is it because I don't just tell you that you're a fucking idiot or something instead? Because I don't believe that shit. I know everyone I've argued with in this thread has a brain and the capacity to think critically, but I can see when I'm not going to change anyone's mind which is almost always, so i'm not going to fight their position that much. Most of my replies are for the sake of clarifying what I think so people understand better.

The main reason I think Democrats embracing incivility is a bad strategy is based on the idea of voters who are torn between the two parties. If you think no Trump voter will ever vote the other way, and I think it's possible a large amount of them will, then where else does this argument go? You don't like me, I have virtually no influence over what you believe, so what else is there to discuss? I could keep trying to clarify what I believe but it's likely you'll just continue to think I'm an idiot.

Elai · October 11, 2018, 03:37:31 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on October 11, 2018, 02:19:24 PM

When Hillary cheated to beat Bernie is when the Democrats lost the election. She had no right to be in the running.

There's an argument to be made that that's not what happened. Vox made a good video about it. It looked like "the establishment" pushed for Hillary because she inspires loyalty as a skilled leader, and those within "the system" wanted her to win because of her leadership style. She might have been a horrible candidate, but she might've made a great president.

At least, that's the narrative some people likr to push.

Elai · October 11, 2018, 03:40:02 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 02:22:34 PM

Quote from: Eli on October 11, 2018, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 12:41:17 PM
Maybe for Bernie, but he was so weak

How exactly was he weak? From what I've seen he ran a really respectable campaign and seemed much "stronger" than Clinton.
Personally I lost all respect for him when he let those two fatass BLM girls take the mic from him at one of his speeches.

One instance doesn't trump multiple gutsy political moments, in my view anyway.

big dog · October 11, 2018, 03:41:14 PM

corbyn will save us

Elai · October 11, 2018, 03:42:09 PM

Quote from: Rescue on October 11, 2018, 03:11:17 PM

People like Challenger who have no ability to comprehend why some people may see things differently and then characterize them as stupid sheep who are beneath him is ironically funny and already have their answers if they would bother to look in a mirror

Challenger and I disagree all the time but I can attest he at least respects my point of view.

The issue here is that people who look at this administration without disdain are unreachable. They live in a bubble. There's really not much more beyond that.

maverick · October 11, 2018, 03:46:36 PM

I’d hardly consider every Trump voter a radical. If you remember back to 2016, basically all the Trump supporters on this website were just a bunch of floodposters that wouldn’t ever respond when challenged on it. That’s basically how I view a large chunk of his voters: they may not necessarily agree with him or know why they voted for him, they just did it anyways.

Verbatim · October 11, 2018, 04:03:14 PM

Quote from: maverick on October 11, 2018, 03:46:36 PM

I’d hardly consider every Trump voter a radical. If you remember back to 2016, basically all the Trump supporters on this website were just a bunch of floodposters that wouldn’t ever respond when challenged on it. That’s basically how I view a large chunk of his voters: they may not necessarily agree with him or know why they voted for him, they just did it anyways.

idiots, in other words

radicals, idiots, or radical idiots: trump's voterbase

challengerX · October 11, 2018, 04:07:03 PM

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maverick · October 11, 2018, 04:07:23 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 11, 2018, 04:03:14 PM

Quote from: maverick on October 11, 2018, 03:46:36 PM
I’d hardly consider every Trump voter a radical. If you remember back to 2016, basically all the Trump supporters on this website were just a bunch of floodposters that wouldn’t ever respond when challenged on it. That’s basically how I view a large chunk of his voters: they may not necessarily agree with him or know why they voted for him, they just did it anyways.
idiots, in other words

radicals, idiots, or radical idiots: trump's voterbase

Or people not taking the process seriously enough, which I suppose fits under the “idiot” category.

challengerX · October 11, 2018, 04:10:05 PM

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Genghis Khan · October 11, 2018, 04:14:01 PM

2016 was a referendum on Hillary Clinton. America couldn't afford another 4 years of Obama but she was worse.

Ingy · October 11, 2018, 04:26:18 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 04:07:03 PM

Quote from: Rescue on October 11, 2018, 03:11:17 PM
People like Challenger who have no ability to comprehend why some people may see things differently and then characterize them as stupid sheep who are beneath him is ironically funny and already have their answers if they would bother to look in a mirror
Trump voters literally are stupid sheep. You’re voting for some rich kid who wasted all of his dads money and failed in everything he tried to do, and he’s working for the Russians. He’s not some average joe who became president.

Beyond that I don’t give a fuck what you “think” about.

Maybe they’re just tired of people like you telling them everything is their fault for being white

challengerX · October 11, 2018, 04:40:45 PM

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Genghis Khan · October 11, 2018, 04:44:44 PM

Democrats are out to get us. We must defend our first and second amendment.

Mordo · October 11, 2018, 05:34:22 PM

okay

so basically I'm monky

Dietrich Six · October 11, 2018, 09:26:33 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 04:10:05 PM

Quote from: maverick on October 11, 2018, 03:46:36 PM
I’d hardly consider every Trump voter a radical. If you remember back to 2016, basically all the Trump supporters on this website were just a bunch of floodposters that wouldn’t ever respond when challenged on it. That’s basically how I view a large chunk of his voters: they may not necessarily agree with him or know why they voted for him, they just did it anyways.
Yeah... that’s what makes people radicals. Uninformed and quick to jump to conclusions on issues they know nothing about. They base all their opinions on emotion.

This is some shit

Dietrich Six · October 11, 2018, 09:30:40 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 04:07:03 PM

Quote from: Rescue on October 11, 2018, 03:11:17 PM
People like Challenger who have no ability to comprehend why some people may see things differently and then characterize them as stupid sheep who are beneath him is ironically funny and already have their answers if they would bother to look in a mirror
Trump voters literally are stupid sheep. You’re voting for some rich kid who wasted all of his dads money and failed in everything he tried to do, and he’s working for the Russians. He’s not some average joe who became president.

Beyond that I don’t give a fuck what you “think” about.

Trump is worth 3.5 billion, how exactly has he wasted all his Daddy's money and failed at everything he does? He became the fucking president by running a joke campaign.

challengerX · October 11, 2018, 09:55:10 PM

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challengerX · October 11, 2018, 09:56:31 PM

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Genghis Khan · October 12, 2018, 01:40:53 AM

Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 09:56:31 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on October 11, 2018, 09:30:40 PM
Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: Rescue on October 11, 2018, 03:11:17 PM
People like Challenger who have no ability to comprehend why some people may see things differently and then characterize them as stupid sheep who are beneath him is ironically funny and already have their answers if they would bother to look in a mirror
Trump voters literally are stupid sheep. You’re voting for some rich kid who wasted all of his dads money and failed in everything he tried to do, and he’s working for the Russians. He’s not some average joe who became president.

Beyond that I don’t give a fuck what you “think” about.

Trump is worth 3.5 billion, how exactly has he wasted all his Daddy's money and failed at everything he does? He became the fucking president by running a joke campaign.
LOL

Why do you think he’s a puppet for the Russians dumbass. He went to them for money after nobody else would loan him any.

No one has found connection with Trump and the Russians. Don't believe in mainstrean media propaganda.

challengerX · October 12, 2018, 01:56:16 AM

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Ingy · October 12, 2018, 02:17:47 AM

Trump is def in bed with the Russians

That’s why we bombed Syria, expelled their diplomats, and put even more sanctions on them

Genghis Khan · October 12, 2018, 02:24:53 AM

Quote from: Rescue on October 12, 2018, 02:17:47 AM

Trump is def in bed with the Russians

That’s why we bombed Syria, expelled their diplomats, and put even more sanctions on them

And urging Nato countries to spend more money on defense.

Dietrich Six · October 12, 2018, 06:15:42 AM

Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 09:55:10 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on October 11, 2018, 09:26:33 PM
Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 04:10:05 PM
Quote from: maverick on October 11, 2018, 03:46:36 PM
I’d hardly consider every Trump voter a radical. If you remember back to 2016, basically all the Trump supporters on this website were just a bunch of floodposters that wouldn’t ever respond when challenged on it. That’s basically how I view a large chunk of his voters: they may not necessarily agree with him or know why they voted for him, they just did it anyways.
Yeah... that’s what makes people radicals. Uninformed and quick to jump to conclusions on issues they know nothing about. They base all their opinions on emotion.

This is some shit
Shut your faggot ass up boy. Dumbass motherfucker

Thank you

Dietrich Six · October 12, 2018, 06:16:54 AM

Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 09:56:31 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on October 11, 2018, 09:30:40 PM
Quote from: challengerX on October 11, 2018, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: Rescue on October 11, 2018, 03:11:17 PM
People like Challenger who have no ability to comprehend why some people may see things differently and then characterize them as stupid sheep who are beneath him is ironically funny and already have their answers if they would bother to look in a mirror
Trump voters literally are stupid sheep. You’re voting for some rich kid who wasted all of his dads money and failed in everything he tried to do, and he’s working for the Russians. He’s not some average joe who became president.

Beyond that I don’t give a fuck what you “think” about.

Trump is worth 3.5 billion, how exactly has he wasted all his Daddy's money and failed at everything he does? He became the fucking president by running a joke campaign.
LOL

Why do you think he’s a puppet for the Russians dumbass. He went to them for money after nobody else would loan him any.

He's worth 5.3 billion, he doesn't need a small loan of a million dollars.

challengerX · October 12, 2018, 12:21:31 PM

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challengerX · October 12, 2018, 12:22:23 PM

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