When would you recognize a transgendered person as their desired gender/sex?

Cindy · April 23, 2015, 08:11:32 PM

Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 06:25:05 PM

Quote from: Lemön | Blowjob Master on April 23, 2015, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 02:58:43 PM
Look if, you want to e called a woman because you got your dick cut off, okay. I'll do that. But that doesn't change the fact that you have XY chromosomes. You ARE male, whether you like it or not.
Sex and gender aren't the same thing

Which is exactly why I said what I did in my first sentence. However, just because you dress up or make alterations to your body doesn't change your sex. You're still a man/woman, now matter what you try to convince yourself or others otherwise.

Just because I think I'm black in my head doesn't make it true if I'm actually white. I suddenly can't start bitching about how I'm not getting special treatment (well I can, but no one will take me seriously), or being treated how I want to be.

Personally, it seems like a delusional state of mind. A disconnection from reality. Most of, if not all, the transgenders I know a familial and physiological issues.

"People who have a mental disorder seem to have psychological issues"

Wow, really, you think so?

And seriously, the chromosome argument is one of the most stupid, tired arguments I've ever seen. People who make the argument, "well, you shouldn't try to change what you are" don't understand people with dysphoria issues at all. Most people with dysphoria genuinely wish that they were not experiencing these thoughts, and that they could live in their bodies happily and normally. It is an extreme mental body-image issue that drives people to suicide because the hate they've accumulated for their own image and the lack of recognition they believe they will get socially if they were to come out about these feelings.

It's not about gender roles, it's not about expecting special treatment, it's about expecting to be treated like any other human would whilst they try to feel more comfortable within their own bodies. Why does the argument "WELL YOU STILL HAVE A Y CHROMOSOME" ever pop up? Would you yell at a gay guy because he's "not meant" to fuck other guys because his body still contains semen, which is used to impregnate women? He's still straight at heart, obviously, he just wants attention and special treatment!

Tackel · April 23, 2015, 08:16:20 PM

Quote from: Saerveyn on April 23, 2015, 08:11:32 PM

Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 06:25:05 PM
Quote from: Lemön | Blowjob Master on April 23, 2015, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 02:58:43 PM
Look if, you want to e called a woman because you got your dick cut off, okay. I'll do that. But that doesn't change the fact that you have XY chromosomes. You ARE male, whether you like it or not.
Sex and gender aren't the same thing

Which is exactly why I said what I did in my first sentence. However, just because you dress up or make alterations to your body doesn't change your sex. You're still a man/woman, now matter what you try to convince yourself or others otherwise.

Just because I think I'm black in my head doesn't make it true if I'm actually white. I suddenly can't start bitching about how I'm not getting special treatment (well I can, but no one will take me seriously), or being treated how I want to be.

Personally, it seems like a delusional state of mind. A disconnection from reality. Most of, if not all, the transgenders I know a familial and physiological issues.
"People who have a mental disorder seem to have psychological issues"

Wow, really, you think so?

And seriously, the chromosome argument is one of the most stupid, tired arguments I've ever seen.

Would you yell at a gay guy because he's "not meant" to fuck other guys because his body still contains semen, which is used to impregnate women? He's still straight at heart, obviously, he just wants attention and special treatment!

1) Why, because it uses science to determine your sex, not how you feel? Be whatever gender the fuck you want, but your sex cannot change. Just because you want to be or think you are female does not make you so.

2) No, because sexual orientation is determined genetically in your DNA, just like whether you are male or female.

Cindy · April 23, 2015, 08:23:13 PM

Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 08:16:20 PM

Quote from: Saerveyn on April 23, 2015, 08:11:32 PM
Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 06:25:05 PM
Quote from: Lemön | Blowjob Master on April 23, 2015, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 02:58:43 PM
Look if, you want to e called a woman because you got your dick cut off, okay. I'll do that. But that doesn't change the fact that you have XY chromosomes. You ARE male, whether you like it or not.
Sex and gender aren't the same thing

Which is exactly why I said what I did in my first sentence. However, just because you dress up or make alterations to your body doesn't change your sex. You're still a man/woman, now matter what you try to convince yourself or others otherwise.

Just because I think I'm black in my head doesn't make it true if I'm actually white. I suddenly can't start bitching about how I'm not getting special treatment (well I can, but no one will take me seriously), or being treated how I want to be.

Personally, it seems like a delusional state of mind. A disconnection from reality. Most of, if not all, the transgenders I know a familial and physiological issues.
"People who have a mental disorder seem to have psychological issues"

Wow, really, you think so?

And seriously, the chromosome argument is one of the most stupid, tired arguments I've ever seen.

Would you yell at a gay guy because he's "not meant" to fuck other guys because his body still contains semen, which is used to impregnate women? He's still straight at heart, obviously, he just wants attention and special treatment!

1) Why, because it uses science to determine your sex, not how you feel? Be whatever gender the fuck you want, but your sex cannot change. Just because you want to be or think you are female does not make you so.

2) No, because sexual orientation is determined genetically in your DNA, just like whether you are male or female.

1) Yes, and NOBODY ARGUES THAT. Biological sex is incredibly important for medical purposes, so nobody except the crazies on Tumblr would ever deny that undergoing gene therapy would change your biological sex. That is not, however, a reason to constantly remind trans people or hold it over their heads. Frankly it's just a sucker punch to any legitimate transperson experiencing dysphoria, since you're basically taunting them with something they're already perfectly aware of.

2) Exactly. And the more medical and psychological work is done on it, the more prove-able GID is as an actual, test-able mental disorder. But even if it were not, I'd ask: why the hell does that matter? Would you prevent someone from wanting to gain muscle mass, or get piercings, or get tattoos, or anything of that sort? It's their bodies, they're perfectly free to change their gender. After that it simply becomes a matter of respecting their wishes and referring to them as male or female, rather than being an asshat and going "WELL YOU'VE STILL GOT A Y-CHROMOSOME SO THAT MAKES YOU A DUDE.

Also, what would you say to people born intersex, since they don't fit a gender-binary from the second they pop out of the womb?

Tackel · April 23, 2015, 08:25:41 PM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 23, 2015, 07:24:59 PM

Third video I posted deserves a watch for those who cling onto the chromosome argument.

Yes, and that's a genetic mutation. One of the many wonders life gives us. They don't have a specific sex due to this mutation, which is where gender roles come into play. However, I'm speaking of those who are born "normally". Yes, some of them could have varied hormonal makeups, whcih might cause a slightly more feminine/masculine thinking, but they are still male/female despite what they personally believe.

Tackel · April 23, 2015, 08:33:17 PM

Quote from: Saerveyn on April 23, 2015, 08:23:13 PM

Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: Saerveyn on April 23, 2015, 08:11:32 PM
Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 06:25:05 PM
Quote from: Lemön | Blowjob Master on April 23, 2015, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 02:58:43 PM
Look if, you want to e called a woman because you got your dick cut off, okay. I'll do that. But that doesn't change the fact that you have XY chromosomes. You ARE male, whether you like it or not.
Sex and gender aren't the same thing

Which is exactly why I said what I did in my first sentence. However, just because you dress up or make alterations to your body doesn't change your sex. You're still a man/woman, now matter what you try to convince yourself or others otherwise.

Just because I think I'm black in my head doesn't make it true if I'm actually white. I suddenly can't start bitching about how I'm not getting special treatment (well I can, but no one will take me seriously), or being treated how I want to be.

Personally, it seems like a delusional state of mind. A disconnection from reality. Most of, if not all, the transgenders I know a familial and physiological issues.
"People who have a mental disorder seem to have psychological issues"

Wow, really, you think so?

And seriously, the chromosome argument is one of the most stupid, tired arguments I've ever seen.

Would you yell at a gay guy because he's "not meant" to fuck other guys because his body still contains semen, which is used to impregnate women? He's still straight at heart, obviously, he just wants attention and special treatment!

1) Why, because it uses science to determine your sex, not how you feel? Be whatever gender the fuck you want, but your sex cannot change. Just because you want to be or think you are female does not make you so.

2) No, because sexual orientation is determined genetically in your DNA, just like whether you are male or female.
1) Yes, and NOBODY ARGUES THAT. Biological sex is incredibly important for medical purposes, so nobody except the crazies on Tumblr would ever deny that undergoing gene therapy would change your biological sex. That is not, however, a reason to constantly remind trans people or hold it over their heads. Frankly it's just a sucker punch to any legitimate transperson experiencing dysphoria, since you're basically taunting them with something they're already perfectly aware of.

2) Exactly. And the more medical and psychological work is done on it, the more prove-able GID is as an actual, test-able mental disorder. But even if it were not, I'd ask: why the hell does that matter? Would you prevent someone from wanting to gain muscle mass, or get piercings, or get tattoos, or anything of that sort? It's their bodies, they're perfectly free to change their gender. After that it simply becomes a matter of respecting their wishes and referring to them as male or female, rather than being an asshat and going "WELL YOU'VE STILL GOT A Y-CHROMOSOME SO THAT MAKES YOU A DUDE.

Also, what would you say to people born intersex, since they don't fit a gender-binary from the second they pop out of the womb?

You act is if I'm actively participating in going against transgenders. Be whatever the fuck you want. I don't care.

The fact remains though, they are still the sex they are born with, no matter how many physical and mental transformations they go through. If some transgender person comes up to me and asks me to refer to him as a woman, I will. But in my mind and scientifically speaking, he's still a male human.

DAS B00T x2 · April 23, 2015, 08:44:56 PM

So is this the wrong thrad gor me to go on my "gender roles are the primary cause of disphoria and transphobia" rant/speil?

Sandtrap · April 24, 2015, 12:16:27 AM

Quote from: challengerX on April 22, 2015, 02:35:03 PM

Quote from: Sandtrap on April 22, 2015, 12:23:05 PM
Quote from: challengerX on April 22, 2015, 12:07:02 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and let everybody know I voted for option 5.

And I also realize that I've never asked why you've a seemingly stubborn stance on things. Why is a good question here.

Why in particular, do you take such an opposing stance?
Because the way I see it, you are what you're born as.

That doesn't mean I go out of my way to call a transgender a "he" if they identify as a "she". I don't have a problem with calling them whatever they want to be called and it's not something that bothers me.

But they're not true females if they were born as males or true males if they were born as females. They just aren't.

Well, that's all hunky dory then. If ya ain't being a dick about it then that's fair.

Sylvie · April 24, 2015, 03:28:57 AM

Transgender*

Girl of Mystery · April 24, 2015, 05:13:55 AM

Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 06:25:05 PM

Quote from: Lemön | Blowjob Master on April 23, 2015, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 02:58:43 PM
Look if, you want to e called a woman because you got your dick cut off, okay. I'll do that. But that doesn't change the fact that you have XY chromosomes. You ARE male, whether you like it or not.
Sex and gender aren't the same thing

Which is exactly why I said what I did in my first sentence. However, just because you dress up or make alterations to your body doesn't change your sex. You're still a man/woman, now matter what you try to convince yourself or others otherwise.

Just because I think I'm black in my head doesn't make it true if I'm actually white. I suddenly can't start bitching about how I'm not getting special treatment (well I can, but no one will take me seriously), or being treated how I want to be.

Personally, it seems like a delusional state of mind. A disconnection from reality. Most of, if not all, the transgenders I know a familial and physiological issues.

Do you not understand the difference between gender and sex?

Man/woman = Gender
Male/female = sex

A male can identify as a woman.
A female can identify as a man.

Gender and sex aren't tied to each other.

Verbatim · April 24, 2015, 09:21:43 AM

Quote from: Lemön | Blowjob Master on April 24, 2015, 05:13:55 AM

Man/woman = Gender
Male/female = sex

i mean, you're absolutely correct, but this part right here is just sort of semantics, isn't it

the easiest way to put it is
sex = physical/biological
gender = mental/psychological

Girl of Mystery · April 24, 2015, 10:12:01 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 24, 2015, 09:21:43 AM

Quote from: Lemön | Blowjob Master on April 24, 2015, 05:13:55 AM
Man/woman = Gender
Male/female = sex
i mean, you're absolutely correct, but this part right here is just sort of semantics, isn't it

the easiest way to put it is
sex = physical/biological
gender = mental/psychological

It's just a simpler way to put it really

Cindy · April 24, 2015, 10:15:25 AM

Quote from: the boat ECKS two on April 23, 2015, 08:44:56 PM

So is this the wrong thrad gor me to go on my "gender roles are the primary cause of disphoria and transphobia" rant/speil?

Eh, I'd disagree

One of the primary aspects of gender dysphoria is body image issues and the fact that sexual actions/genitals feel generally 'wrong' or misplaced. Not every trans person just wants to be more masculine/feminine.

Super Irish · April 24, 2015, 02:31:34 PM

I'd call them whatever gender they want if they say they are, but I wouldn't think it was serious until they began some sort of therapy or treatment to change their sex. There would be some caveat if given current medical progress in this sorta thing that someone would be scared of any risks in a sex change and refuse it, and that's fair enough.

My main point is, I could just decide to tell everybody that I'm transgendered and identify as a woman. Doesn't mean much in the way of anything unless I'd radically changed my behavior from how I am now (generally masculine) to a more feminine one.

Spoiler

I realise this may be misconstrued and appear offensive to some, but I assure you I'm trying to explain my view in the least possible (I put this down to a lack of information on the subject). You say you're a woman or a man when you were born as the other sex, I'll address you as such.

Nascent Email · April 24, 2015, 05:57:46 PM

Never, you don't help the mentally ill by pretending their delusions are real.

Not Comms Officer · April 24, 2015, 06:01:38 PM

Quote from: Trojanlord on April 24, 2015, 05:57:46 PM

Never, you don't help the mentally ill by pretending their delusions are real.

Mattie G Indahouse · April 24, 2015, 08:37:44 PM

In this topic CIS scum.

Tackel · April 24, 2015, 09:54:54 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on April 24, 2015, 08:37:44 PM

In this topic CIS scum.

Jesus, she is disgusting looking.

aREALgod · April 24, 2015, 10:00:44 PM

Quote from: Kitsunekun on April 23, 2015, 09:50:23 AM

Quote from: lol totally not SLASH on April 22, 2015, 11:47:05 PM
Quote from: Kitsunekun on April 22, 2015, 08:38:28 PM
Yes. If that's how they identify themselves I will accept their views.

Omg you're hot what's your number bby let's hook uuuuuup

Well at least that's better than being told to kill myself lol

y dont you answer me

((((((((((((((((((((

Kitsune 狐 · April 25, 2015, 12:24:55 AM

Quote from: lol totally not SLASH on April 24, 2015, 10:00:44 PM

Quote from: Kitsunekun on April 23, 2015, 09:50:23 AM

Quote from: lol totally not SLASH on April 22, 2015, 11:47:05 PM
Quote from: Kitsunekun on April 22, 2015, 08:38:28 PM
Yes. If that's how they identify themselves I will accept their views.

Omg you're hot what's your number bby let's hook uuuuuup

Well at least that's better than being told to kill myself lol

y dont you answer me ((((((((((((((((((((

Sorry love

Magos Domina · April 25, 2015, 11:41:23 AM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on April 24, 2015, 08:37:44 PM

In this topic CIS scum.

aREALgod · April 25, 2015, 05:06:04 PM

Quote from: Shub-Niggurath on April 25, 2015, 11:41:23 AM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on April 24, 2015, 08:37:44 PM
In this topic CIS scum.

Oh boy it's like I'm back in 9th grade

Naoto · April 26, 2015, 08:27:51 AM

It doesn't seem all that complicated to me? I just call people by the pronouns they want. If I call them by the wrong one when we first meet and they want to get pissy about it that's their problem. I'm not psychic.

In my head though I still tend to identify people by their biological sex.

I guess I don't really care enough for it to be a big deal. People are people. Unless you want me to call you a two spirit otherkin we're probably cool.

BlackEye · April 27, 2015, 07:54:20 PM

When they don't give me the fucking creeps

Saleem · April 27, 2015, 10:37:55 PM

If they're a reasonable human being I'd probably be courteous. If they're fucknuts I'll be sure to keep their biology in mind.

Poll

Who will win this final duel?

When would you recognize a transgendered person as their desired gender/sex?