When would you recognize a transgendered person as their desired gender/sex?

Verbatim · April 22, 2015, 11:22:27 PM

the thing about gender is that it's bullshit

it's just a contrived social construct, unlike sex

so while i'll respectfully identify transfolk as whatever gender they assign themselves
i have to wonder why it matters to them

what difference does it make if i call you he or she
you're no less of a human being either way

Verbatim · April 22, 2015, 11:31:07 PM

i mean maybe that's a dumb question, but it seems like the "gender fluid" folk have it nailed, logically speaking

they don't care what you call them

because pronouns are just words

aREALgod · April 22, 2015, 11:47:05 PM

Quote from: Kitsunekun on April 22, 2015, 08:38:28 PM

Yes. If that's how they identify themselves I will accept their views.

Omg you're hot what's your number bby let's hook uuuuuup

Not Comms Officer · April 22, 2015, 11:53:53 PM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:42:39 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:15:02 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:00:38 PM
I gotta say, I'm actually impressed by these poll results.
What about the 18%?

Lol.
This is way better than the polls on Bungie usually go, so...
Wait, what, really?

How much worse are the polls on Bungie?
Basically, flip the results.

That's fucking stupid.

But then on the other hand, most of Bungie.net is far younger on average and they don't really understand the whole social debate with transgenderism properly.

Mr. Psychologist · April 23, 2015, 07:19:00 AM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:53:53 PM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:42:39 PM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:15:02 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:00:38 PM
I gotta say, I'm actually impressed by these poll results.
What about the 18%?

Lol.
This is way better than the polls on Bungie usually go, so...
Wait, what, really?

How much worse are the polls on Bungie?
Basically, flip the results.
That's fucking stupid.

But then on the other hand, most of Bungie.net is far younger on average and they don't really understand the whole social debate with transgenderism properly.

Youngling yanks, not a good combo for finding a tolerant worldview.

Incan · April 23, 2015, 07:48:03 AM

I'd say option 1 but I have a big issue with seeing someone I've known for a while as the other gender, so I'd have to say option 2 or 3.

Kitsune 狐 · April 23, 2015, 09:50:23 AM

Quote from: lol totally not SLASH on April 22, 2015, 11:47:05 PM

Quote from: Kitsunekun on April 22, 2015, 08:38:28 PM
Yes. If that's how they identify themselves I will accept their views.

Omg you're hot what's your number bby let's hook uuuuuup

Well at least that's better than being told to kill myself lol

Not Comms Officer · April 23, 2015, 09:52:28 AM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 23, 2015, 07:19:00 AM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:53:53 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:42:39 PM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:15:02 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:00:38 PM
I gotta say, I'm actually impressed by these poll results.
What about the 18%?

Lol.
This is way better than the polls on Bungie usually go, so...
Wait, what, really?

How much worse are the polls on Bungie?
Basically, flip the results.
That's fucking stupid.

But then on the other hand, most of Bungie.net is far younger on average and they don't really understand the whole social debate with transgenderism properly.
Youngling yanks, not a good combo for finding a tolerant worldview.

lolyankiesxDDDDD

Mr. Psychologist · April 23, 2015, 10:01:27 AM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 23, 2015, 09:52:28 AM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 23, 2015, 07:19:00 AM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:53:53 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:42:39 PM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:15:02 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:00:38 PM
I gotta say, I'm actually impressed by these poll results.
What about the 18%?

Lol.
This is way better than the polls on Bungie usually go, so...
Wait, what, really?

How much worse are the polls on Bungie?
Basically, flip the results.
That's fucking stupid.

But then on the other hand, most of Bungie.net is far younger on average and they don't really understand the whole social debate with transgenderism properly.
Youngling yanks, not a good combo for finding a tolerant worldview.
lolyankiesxDDDDD

*Yankees

And yes, lol Yanks.

Girl of Mystery · April 23, 2015, 10:08:23 AM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:53:53 PM

Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:42:39 PM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:15:02 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:00:38 PM
I gotta say, I'm actually impressed by these poll results.
What about the 18%?

Lol.
This is way better than the polls on Bungie usually go, so...
Wait, what, really?

How much worse are the polls on Bungie?
Basically, flip the results.
That's fucking stupid.

But then on the other hand, most of Bungie.net is far younger on average and they don't really understand the whole social debate with transgenderism properly.

There's also a lot of dense and narrowminded religious people on Bnet.

Not Comms Officer · April 23, 2015, 10:16:07 AM

Quote from: Lemön | Queen of Anal on April 23, 2015, 10:08:23 AM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:53:53 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:42:39 PM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 22, 2015, 11:15:02 PM
Quote from: Nuka 'Kal Vargun on April 22, 2015, 11:00:38 PM
I gotta say, I'm actually impressed by these poll results.
What about the 18%?

Lol.
This is way better than the polls on Bungie usually go, so...
Wait, what, really?

How much worse are the polls on Bungie?
Basically, flip the results.
That's fucking stupid.

But then on the other hand, most of Bungie.net is far younger on average and they don't really understand the whole social debate with transgenderism properly.
There's also a lot of dense and narrowminded religious people on Bnet.

Oh god yes...

The Bungie community's gone down the shitter since Sep7agon was made, since the majority of even decent users left there to come here.

King pesto · April 23, 2015, 10:52:47 AM

I'm really conflicted about this issue

Luciana · April 23, 2015, 11:21:05 AM

For me it's when they actually do the hormone therapy or consoling because it means they are serious about it. I already recognize more than a few people as female who are transgendered, but at the same time I can tell you I've seen the most manly of men say they want to be a girl and be referred to as such, only for attention because "girls are pretty".

That being said, don't get pissy at me due to habit and stubbornness for not calling you "she" all the time. I can't just suddenly up and refer to someone as "she" if they come to me and say they wanna be a girl and be called as such.

Luciana · April 23, 2015, 11:24:55 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 11:22:27 PM

the thing about gender is that it's bullshit

it's just a contrived social construct, unlike sex

so while i'll respectfully identify transfolk as whatever gender they assign themselves
i have to wonder why it matters to them

what difference does it make if i call you he or she
you're no less of a human being either way

I do have to add on to this because I agree. For these kinds of people who try so hard to fight against labels (I'm referring to crazy liberals and shit. Basically Tumblr), they're doing exactly that.

Girl of Mystery · April 23, 2015, 12:00:31 PM

Quote from: Luciana on April 23, 2015, 11:21:05 AM

only for attention because "girls are pretty".

but that's a pretty valid reason though

who wouldn't want to be a hot girl?

Verbatim · April 23, 2015, 12:04:20 PM

i

just kidding, that would probably be pretty cool

Jester · April 23, 2015, 12:20:08 PM

King pesto · April 23, 2015, 12:25:21 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 11:22:27 PM

the thing about gender is that it's bullshit

it's just a contrived social construct, unlike sex

so while i'll respectfully identify transfolk as whatever gender they assign themselves
i have to wonder why it matters to them

what difference does it make if i call you he or she
you're no less of a human being either way

yes, of course, the mind is in no way connected to the body!

You are your feels!

Verbatim · April 23, 2015, 12:27:26 PM

the mind is only tenuously connected to the body, and even then, i'm not quite sure what that has to do with what i said

Cindy · April 23, 2015, 02:52:06 PM

Where's the option for "once they make an attempt to change"?

I voted for hormone therapy, but even that isn't completely true. If my hypothetical friend Frank said he wanted to be called Frederica, but still had a beard and a waxed mustache, I'd tell him to go fuck off.

If he made efforts to make himself appear more feminine/girlish, with or without HRT, I'd respect his wishes and refer to him appropriately.

Tackel · April 23, 2015, 02:58:43 PM

Look if, you want to e called a woman because you got your dick cut off, okay. I'll do that. But that doesn't change the fact that you have XY chromosomes. You ARE male, whether you like it or not.

Cindy · April 23, 2015, 02:59:06 PM

Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 02:58:43 PM

Look if, you want to e called a woman because you got your dick cut off, okay. I'll do that. But that doesn't change the fact that you have XY chromosomes. You ARE male, whether you like it or not.

Which is where the distinction between gender and sex comes in

Luciana · April 23, 2015, 03:07:40 PM

Quote from: Saerveyn on April 23, 2015, 02:52:06 PM

Where's the option for "once they make an attempt to change"?

I voted for hormone therapy, but even that isn't completely true. If my hypothetical friend Frank said he wanted to be called Frederica, but still had a beard and a waxed mustache, I'd tell him to go fuck off.

If he made efforts to make himself appear more feminine/girlish, with or without HRT, I'd respect his wishes and refer to him appropriately.

Yeah that makes more sense. You word things better than I. It's why I don't consider someone from Bungle a... transgender person.

Cheat · April 23, 2015, 04:00:05 PM

Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 02:58:43 PM

Look if, you want to e called a woman because you got your dick cut off, okay. I'll do that. But that doesn't change the fact that you have XY chromosomes. You ARE male, whether you like it or not.

But why would you even care about chromosomes? Unless you're talking procreation or forensics (like in a murder investigation) they're irrelevant.

I don't mean to mock you, but this line of thinking seems similar to those people who only want "legit" Pokemon for their collection (un-modded, non-cloned, etc).

Girl of Mystery · April 23, 2015, 04:11:32 PM

Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 02:58:43 PM

Look if, you want to e called a woman because you got your dick cut off, okay. I'll do that. But that doesn't change the fact that you have XY chromosomes. You ARE male, whether you like it or not.

Sex and gender aren't the same thing

Verbatim · April 23, 2015, 04:15:03 PM

Quote from: Cheat on April 23, 2015, 04:00:05 PM

I don't mean to mock you, but this line of thinking seems similar to those people who only want "legit" Pokemon for their collection (un-modded, non-cloned, etc).

nothing wrong with wanting to play legit

not to derail the thread, but that was just an odd example

challengerX · April 23, 2015, 04:28:09 PM

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The Lord Ruler · April 23, 2015, 04:42:50 PM

I mean if they're serious once they declare it okay I'll recognize it.

Tackel · April 23, 2015, 06:25:05 PM

Quote from: Lemön | Blowjob Master on April 23, 2015, 04:11:32 PM

Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 02:58:43 PM
Look if, you want to e called a woman because you got your dick cut off, okay. I'll do that. But that doesn't change the fact that you have XY chromosomes. You ARE male, whether you like it or not.
Sex and gender aren't the same thing

Which is exactly why I said what I did in my first sentence. However, just because you dress up or make alterations to your body doesn't change your sex. You're still a man/woman, now matter what you try to convince yourself or others otherwise.

Just because I think I'm black in my head doesn't make it true if I'm actually white. I suddenly can't start bitching about how I'm not getting special treatment (well I can, but no one will take me seriously), or being treated how I want to be.

Personally, it seems like a delusional state of mind. A disconnection from reality. Most of, if not all, the transgenders I know a familial and physiological issues.

Groot · April 23, 2015, 06:48:07 PM

Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 06:25:05 PM

Quote from: Lemön | Blowjob Master on April 23, 2015, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: Tackelberry on April 23, 2015, 02:58:43 PM
Look if, you want to e called a woman because you got your dick cut off, okay. I'll do that. But that doesn't change the fact that you have XY chromosomes. You ARE male, whether you like it or not.
Sex and gender aren't the same thing
Which is exactly why I said what I did in my first sentence. However, just because you dress up or make alterations to your body doesn't change your sex.

Your whole argument seems to be riding on chromosomes, like they're the be all end all, but there is more to it than that (and they're not even important once you're born).

You can be male or female or somewhere in between on these (which are physical and observable):

Chromosomes
Genitals
Body chemistry
Bone structure
Fat/muscle distribution
etc.

These are all physical qualities and none of them are as absolute as you make them out to be. After all, xxy (and several others that I forgot about) exist and come with all sorts of uncommon physical attributes.

Also, I am Groot.

Poll

Who will win this final duel?

When would you recognize a transgendered person as their desired gender/sex?