Quote from: Madman Mordo on April 19, 2015, 07:57:43 PM

There is no evidence to suggest that the Death Penalty is an effective deterrent though.

Not to mention the astronomical costs the taxpayer has to bear the brunt of to try and get someone convicted for the death penalty. Bureaucracy isn't cheap funnily enough.

It's about punishment, not deterrent. I think Tsarnaev deserves to be executed for his participation in the bombing.

As for cost, while the trial for the death penalty is more expensive than a trial for life in prison, when you factor in the actual cost of incarcerating someone for life, it far exceeds that of the trial.

Regardless, justice shouldn't be meted out based on cost.

Life obviously. Besides wasn't his brother the main bomber? And he already got shot so....

if it were up to me I'd have him put in an electric chair but there's a twist, the electricity is controlled by a random time switch. the limit would be to 30 years so any time between that it could go off. loooooooool if the electricity doesn't kill him the suspense will

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 19, 2015, 08:03:21 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on April 19, 2015, 07:57:43 PM

There is no evidence to suggest that the Death Penalty is an effective deterrent though.

Not to mention the astronomical costs the taxpayer has to bear the brunt of to try and get someone convicted for the death penalty. Bureaucracy isn't cheap funnily enough.

It's about punishment, not deterrent. I think Tsarnaev deserves to be executed for his participation in the bombing.

As for cost, while the trial for the death penalty is more expensive than a trial for life in prison, when you factor in the actual cost of incarcerating someone for life, it far exceeds that of the trial.

Regardless, justice shouldn't be meted out based on cost.

So you'd rather martyr him than lock him up in supermax for the rest of his natural life? That's exactly what he wants.

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 21, 2015, 06:42:04 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on April 21, 2015, 04:53:38 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 19, 2015, 08:03:21 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on April 19, 2015, 07:57:43 PM

There is no evidence to suggest that the Death Penalty is an effective deterrent though.

Not to mention the astronomical costs the taxpayer has to bear the brunt of to try and get someone convicted for the death penalty. Bureaucracy isn't cheap funnily enough.

It's about punishment, not deterrent. I think Tsarnaev deserves to be executed for his participation in the bombing.

As for cost, while the trial for the death penalty is more expensive than a trial for life in prison, when you factor in the actual cost of incarcerating someone for life, it far exceeds that of the trial.

Regardless, justice shouldn't be meted out based on cost.

So you'd rather martyr him than lock him up in supermax for the rest of his natural life? That's exactly what he wants.

He clearly isn't in the mindset of martyrdom. He denies being responsible, denies his guilt, and has shifted blame to his brother. The general conclusion is that he was not acting upon radical Islamic beliefs, though his brother was.

No, that was the pathetic defense that his legal team worked up to try to get a lighter sentence.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/america-boston-marathon-bomb-suspect-wrote-boat-officials/story?id=19193153#.UZUEJ7V318H
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/boston-bombings-suspect-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-left-note-in-boat-he-hid-in-sources-say/
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/05/22/text-from-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-note-left-watertown-boat/KnRIeqqr95rJQbAbfnj5EP/story.html#

“I’m jealous of my brother who ha [re]ceived the reward of jannutul Firdaus (inshallah) before me. I do not mourn because his soul is very much alive. God has a plan for each person. Mine was to hide in this boat and shed some light on our actions. I ask Allah to make me a shahied (iA) to allow me to return to him and be among all the righteous people in the highest levels of heaven. He who Allah guides no one can misguide. A[llah Ak]bar!”

^ idk why this is struck through, and im not gonna reformat it

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 21, 2015, 06:51:23 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on April 21, 2015, 06:47:33 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 21, 2015, 06:42:04 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on April 21, 2015, 04:53:38 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 19, 2015, 08:03:21 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on April 19, 2015, 07:57:43 PM

There is no evidence to suggest that the Death Penalty is an effective deterrent though.

Not to mention the astronomical costs the taxpayer has to bear the brunt of to try and get someone convicted for the death penalty. Bureaucracy isn't cheap funnily enough.

It's about punishment, not deterrent. I think Tsarnaev deserves to be executed for his participation in the bombing.

As for cost, while the trial for the death penalty is more expensive than a trial for life in prison, when you factor in the actual cost of incarcerating someone for life, it far exceeds that of the trial.

Regardless, justice shouldn't be meted out based on cost.

So you'd rather martyr him than lock him up in supermax for the rest of his natural life? That's exactly what he wants.

He clearly isn't in the mindset of martyrdom. He denies being responsible, denies his guilt, and has shifted blame to his brother. The general conclusion is that he was not acting upon radical Islamic beliefs, though his brother was.

No, that was the pathetic defense that his legal team worked up to try to get a lighter sentence.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/america-boston-marathon-bomb-suspect-wrote-boat-officials/story?id=19193153#.UZUEJ7V318H
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/boston-bombings-suspect-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-left-note-in-boat-he-hid-in-sources-say/
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/05/22/text-from-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-note-left-watertown-boat/KnRIeqqr95rJQbAbfnj5EP/story.html#

“I’m jealous of my brother who ha [re]ceived the reward of jannutul Firdaus (inshallah) before me. I do not mourn because his soul is very much alive. God has a plan for each person. Mine was to hide in this boat and shed some light on our actions. I ask Allah to make me a shahied (iA) to allow me to return to him and be among all the righteous people in the highest levels of heaven. He who Allah guides no one can misguide. A[llah Ak]bar!”

^ idk why this is struck through, and im not gonna reformat it

That wasn't his legal team, that was the conclusion of the federal investigation into his motives. He showed no signs of interest into radical Islam and was just following his brother's lead.

did you actually click any of my links? its really fucking obvious that that isnt the truth.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/04/06/397823682/boston-marathon-bombing-lawyers-make-closing-arguments
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2015/04/06/the-why-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-focus-closing-statements/mSQqqluSH5FJwTP1g9KxfK/story.html

Quote from: Azumarill on April 21, 2015, 06:54:36 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 21, 2015, 06:51:23 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on April 21, 2015, 06:47:33 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 21, 2015, 06:42:04 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on April 21, 2015, 04:53:38 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on April 19, 2015, 08:03:21 PM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on April 19, 2015, 07:57:43 PM

There is no evidence to suggest that the Death Penalty is an effective deterrent though.

Not to mention the astronomical costs the taxpayer has to bear the brunt of to try and get someone convicted for the death penalty. Bureaucracy isn't cheap funnily enough.

It's about punishment, not deterrent. I think Tsarnaev deserves to be executed for his participation in the bombing.

As for cost, while the trial for the death penalty is more expensive than a trial for life in prison, when you factor in the actual cost of incarcerating someone for life, it far exceeds that of the trial.

Regardless, justice shouldn't be meted out based on cost.

So you'd rather martyr him than lock him up in supermax for the rest of his natural life? That's exactly what he wants.

He clearly isn't in the mindset of martyrdom. He denies being responsible, denies his guilt, and has shifted blame to his brother. The general conclusion is that he was not acting upon radical Islamic beliefs, though his brother was.

No, that was the pathetic defense that his legal team worked up to try to get a lighter sentence.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/america-boston-marathon-bomb-suspect-wrote-boat-officials/story?id=19193153#.UZUEJ7V318H
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/boston-bombings-suspect-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-left-note-in-boat-he-hid-in-sources-say/
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/05/22/text-from-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-note-left-watertown-boat/KnRIeqqr95rJQbAbfnj5EP/story.html#

“I’m jealous of my brother who ha [re]ceived the reward of jannutul Firdaus (inshallah) before me. I do not mourn because his soul is very much alive. God has a plan for each person. Mine was to hide in this boat and shed some light on our actions. I ask Allah to make me a shahied (iA) to allow me to return to him and be among all the righteous people in the highest levels of heaven. He who Allah guides no one can misguide. A[llah Ak]bar!”

^ idk why this is struck through, and im not gonna reformat it

That wasn't his legal team, that was the conclusion of the federal investigation into his motives. He showed no signs of interest into radical Islam and was just following his brother's lead.

did you actually click any of my links? its really fucking obvious that that isnt the truth.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/04/06/397823682/boston-marathon-bombing-lawyers-make-closing-arguments
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2015/04/06/the-why-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-focus-closing-statements/mSQqqluSH5FJwTP1g9KxfK/story.html

Yep, and the these new links do nothing but agree with the federal investigation's conclusion that he was not acting out of truly radicalized beliefs.

Quote from: Azumarill on April 21, 2015, 07:01:55 PM

Are you trolling? This is Serious.

Really not appreciating the attitude you're giving me. If you can't discuss this without acting like you're doing me a favor by posting every news link you find in Google, then we're done discussing it.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324031404578483271912752356

Quote

Counterterrorism officials increasingly believe Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was never truly radicalized, exposing a possible blind spot in U.S. strategies built to detect certain characteristics among would-be American jihadis.
- -
After a month of intensive investigation, authorities, according to people involved in the case, have yet to find any actions by Mr. Tsarnaev before last month's attack that would have stood out as alarming—no frequent visits to jihadi websites, no violent rhetoric, no suspicious purchases.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and subsequent plots, U.S. officials have spread a wide net to thwart potential terrorist plans, monitoring radical websites and keeping in touch with community leaders who might pick up signs of trouble.
- -
Some of those signs were present in the case of Tamerlan, but apparently nonexistent for his younger brother. As a result of the Tsarnaev case, "we will have to pick up on indicators more quickly," one official said.

"In this case the older brother really does seem to be the ringleader, and it appears that what they did were his ideas, his fantasies, his desires, and the younger brother was probably more the follower," she said.
- -
Mr. Rowe saw no signs Dzhokhar held any extremist views. Mr. Rowe walked into the room once to find his roommate praying, but "other than that he didn't talk about religion." Added Mr. Rowe, 19: "He seemed very Americanized."

Quote from: Azumarill on April 21, 2015, 07:21:54 PM

I've given you an overwhelming amount of information supporting my argument, and you have very very very little to stand on. Your only source is from 2013, and it's locked behind a paywall. Please, either take this seriously or leave. I don't appreciate you acting like a victim when I have been endlessly patient with you.

You've been far from patient, accusing me of trolling and not taking this seriously (despite my posts previously in this thread), and repeatedly posting the same links without making an actual argument from them (posting a link and expecting me to extrapolate your argument is bullshit I called out earlier in this thread, as well).

What you're claiming is evidence is the prosecution's argument. What I'm claiming is directly from an unbiased federal investigation. The entirety of the article:

Spoiler

Counterterrorism officials increasingly believe Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was never truly radicalized, exposing a possible blind spot in U.S. strategies built to detect certain characteristics among would-be American jihadis.

After a month of intensive investigation, authorities, according to people involved in the case, have yet to find any actions by Mr. Tsarnaev before last month's attack that would have stood out as alarming—no frequent visits to jihadi websites, no violent rhetoric, no suspicious purchases.

Investigators are still piecing together the lives of the Tsarnaev brothers accused of the bombings, but what they have found so far about Dzhokhar, 19, and his 26-year-old brother, Tamerlan, suggest two different psychological profiles, according to the people involved.

Tamerlan's path to violence fits in the general framework of "homegrown" or "lone wolf" terrorists—a person largely isolated from society, with a fractured family structure, who gravitates to an ill-defined cause, counterterrorism officials said.

Any radicalization of Dzhokhar, by contrast, would have happened at the last minute, if at all, officials said. They described a suspect who looks more like an agreeable follower of his elder brother's instructions. Counterterrorism officials said they believe that without Tamerlan's involvement, no attack would have taken place. Without Dzhokhar's alleged involvement, they believe there still would have been some kind of violence committed by Tamerlan, who was killed a few days after the bombing in a confrontation with police.

The implications are significant for investigators trying to prevent future plots and for prosecutors preparing for the possibility of a death-penalty trial in which Dzhokhar's motives could help determine whether he lives or dies.

An attorney for Dzhokhar didn't return messages seeking comment. Dzhokhar has yet to offer a plea in court to the government's criminal charges.


If Dzhokhar's actions better fit the psychological profile of an ordinary criminal than a committed terrorist—as several officials said they now believe—the question remains why he allegedly was ready to kill so many without mercy. Video and photo images show him depositing a bomb-laden backpack near a crowd of onlookers near the finish line of the Boston Marathon on April 15, according to authorities. The blasts killed three and injured more than 260.

The brothers embarked on an alleged crime spree three nights later, and Dzhokhar is suspected of detonating at least one homemade bomb in the midst of the confrontation with police that left Tamerlan dead. Dzhokhar was captured the following evening, suffering from gunshot wounds. He is now recovering in a prison hospital, facing charges that could carry the death penalty.

In initial interrogations the weekend after his capture, Dzhokhar told investigators the brothers, who are from an ethnic Chechen and Muslim family, acted from jihadist motives and were angered by U.S. actions against Muslims, U.S. officials said. But while Dzhokhar discussed jihadi themes with his elder brother, his own life indicates little interest in them, they said.

Dzhokhar stopped answering questions after getting a lawyer and being told of his right to remain silent a week after the attack, officials said.

Investigators found the brothers downloaded videos from radical Muslim clerics, including the now-dead Anwar al-Awlaki, but even that activity was mostly done by the elder brother, according to officials.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and subsequent plots, U.S. officials have spread a wide net to thwart potential terrorist plans, monitoring radical websites and keeping in touch with community leaders who might pick up signs of trouble.

Some of those signs were present in the case of Tamerlan, but apparently nonexistent for his younger brother. As a result of the Tsarnaev case, "we will have to pick up on indicators more quickly," one official said.

Mary Ellen O'Toole, a former criminal profiler at the Federal Bureau of Investigation who isn't involved in the case, said there are several indications the younger brother was psychologically dependent on his elder brother. In their shootout with police, it was Tamerlan, not Dzhokhar, who fired their only gun, according to law-enforcement officials. Dr. O'Toole described that as an important detail suggesting the pecking order.

"In this case the older brother really does seem to be the ringleader, and it appears that what they did were his ideas, his fantasies, his desires, and the younger brother was probably more the follower," she said.

She said Tamerlan exhibited several traits associated with psychopaths, including assembling bombs in the same small apartment where his toddler daughter lived.

Friends described Dzhokhar as a jokey teenager who seemed to genuinely enjoy his life in America. At his college, the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, the worst that fellow students would say about him was that he was a lackluster student.

Nabil Siddiqi, a recent UMass Dartmouth graduate who remains involved in the Muslim Student Association, recalled a time in January when Dzhokhar and several friends from Kazakhstan showed up at a weekly study circle, giggling and disturbing the discussion.

His freshman-year roommate, Jason Rowe, said Dzhokhar wore jeans and hoodies, liked hip-hop music and late-night Taco Bell. He didn't talk much about his family and was excited when he became a U.S. citizen.

Mr. Rowe saw no signs Dzhokhar held any extremist views. Mr. Rowe walked into the room once to find his roommate praying, but "other than that he didn't talk about religion." Added Mr. Rowe, 19: "He seemed very Americanized."

He was a homegrown terrorist under the leadership of his brother, and any radicalization would have occured in the immediate buildup to the attack, likely galvanized by his brother's death and what Dzhokhar likely interprets as persecution in an 'us vs. them' mentality of the U.S. government.

This discussion stemmed from your question if I would prefer his execution, which you claim is exactly what he wants (despite the plea of innocence, the denial of responsibility, the half-hearted radicalization, and the refusal to force arresting officers to kill him after the bombing). Frankly, he could be the most zealous Muslim on the face of the Earth and I would still say a personal belief has no grounds to impact a sentencing, and it doesn't matter what he wants. Terrorists that are engaged by coalition forces in the Middle East certainly want to be martyred, but we don't use that as an excuse to not kill them. That's no reason not to issue a death sentence, and so far nobody has made an argument from morality against his execution.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Well it doesn't have to be quick or painless. . .

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 23, 2015, 11:33:55 PM

Quote from: SexyBarracuda on April 23, 2015, 10:49:26 PM

Well it doesn't have to be quick or painless. . .

8th Amendment cause US citizen.

hey man you shut up