Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 01:58:37 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 27, 2015, 01:24:53 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 01:14:51 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 27, 2015, 01:03:28 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 12:00:04 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 27, 2015, 11:53:07 AM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 11:47:31 AM

Quote from: PSU on April 27, 2015, 11:37:20 AM

But the mods leave a joke topic like this in serious?

Lol this fucking website

Surely you of all people would know that a controversial opinion =/= a joke.

Looking at the other viewpoint as to why some people might think it's justified (Such as the scumbags who committed the attack) can help to understand how to prevent that from happening again. Simply ignoring the psychology of the enemy isn't going to do anything other than bend over and present for the next one.

That's bogus. It doesn't matter why, what matters preparing so you can stop them from doing it again.

We had this same discussion over why people would study the nazis >.>

Understanding why something happens, how people are led to believe this evil and why they are predisposed to do so in the first place is key to making sure it never happens again.

I think it does matter why, quite a lot infact. Knowing your enemy is knowing how to defeat them, when you are fighting an ideology it's doubly so. Part of preparing to stop them from doing it again is knowing what to look for in other people.

Take the boston bomber for example, if everyone simply went 'Oh what an evil man, he must have been born a monster and is going to die a monster' rather than going 'Okay, so let's find out what kind of bullshit he ate up that led him to do this atrocity' then the next budding bomber is going to be harder to look for. If you find out that he spoke to this preacher, went to this camp and learned to make bombs from this guy you can then track people through those same networks and apprehend them before they strike.

That's called defending yourself properly. We know they're brainwashed by bullshit preachers.

That doesn't mean we need to study them in depth to understand they're crazy and think they're carrying out the invisible sky man's orders.

And you can't destroy an ideology.

Alright, so how do you propose defending ourselves against the jihadists? <.<

And I know this, but that doesn't mean you can't combat it at all. You just don't fight it with bullets and bombs as you would a conventional enemy.

This is why the NSA exists.

Indeed, and GCHQ too.

How do they know what to look for in the masses of data they sift through?
Aside from the Four Lions who send texts about bombing a boots, the ones who have some semblance of wit about themselves. They have to know what to look for and that involves studying the enemy.

Not at all.

Tactics used can just as easily catch a lone attacker with no ties to terrorist groups as much as it can catch a member of AQ. Their ideology is irrelevant as long as you keep tabs on mosques, churches, and keep your ear to the ground.

Uh, yeah. GCHQ is the bonger equivalent of the NSA, they do the same work on this side of the atlantic.

Keeping tabs on mosques is the perfect fuel for creating more radicals, people who normally would just get on with their lives and religions being under constant scrutiny because they *might* be terrorists is a surefire way to generate some pissed off sentiments.

I don't get why you seem to be so against the study of twisted ideologies, it's no different to the research into pathogens. Knowing exactly what is causing the disease helps to cure it, if you know what is leading people to turn to radical ideologies then you can prevent others from doing the same. It's a better path to peace than just sitting and waiting for someone to turn and then gunning them down/locking them up for the rest of their life.

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 02:49:08 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 27, 2015, 02:32:18 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 01:58:37 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 27, 2015, 01:24:53 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 01:14:51 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 27, 2015, 01:03:28 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 12:00:04 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 27, 2015, 11:53:07 AM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 11:47:31 AM

Quote from: PSU on April 27, 2015, 11:37:20 AM

But the mods leave a joke topic like this in serious?

Lol this fucking website

Surely you of all people would know that a controversial opinion =/= a joke.

Looking at the other viewpoint as to why some people might think it's justified (Such as the scumbags who committed the attack) can help to understand how to prevent that from happening again. Simply ignoring the psychology of the enemy isn't going to do anything other than bend over and present for the next one.

That's bogus. It doesn't matter why, what matters preparing so you can stop them from doing it again.

We had this same discussion over why people would study the nazis >.>

Understanding why something happens, how people are led to believe this evil and why they are predisposed to do so in the first place is key to making sure it never happens again.

I think it does matter why, quite a lot infact. Knowing your enemy is knowing how to defeat them, when you are fighting an ideology it's doubly so. Part of preparing to stop them from doing it again is knowing what to look for in other people.

Take the boston bomber for example, if everyone simply went 'Oh what an evil man, he must have been born a monster and is going to die a monster' rather than going 'Okay, so let's find out what kind of bullshit he ate up that led him to do this atrocity' then the next budding bomber is going to be harder to look for. If you find out that he spoke to this preacher, went to this camp and learned to make bombs from this guy you can then track people through those same networks and apprehend them before they strike.

That's called defending yourself properly. We know they're brainwashed by bullshit preachers.

That doesn't mean we need to study them in depth to understand they're crazy and think they're carrying out the invisible sky man's orders.

And you can't destroy an ideology.

Alright, so how do you propose defending ourselves against the jihadists? <.<

And I know this, but that doesn't mean you can't combat it at all. You just don't fight it with bullets and bombs as you would a conventional enemy.

This is why the NSA exists.

Indeed, and GCHQ too.

How do they know what to look for in the masses of data they sift through?
Aside from the Four Lions who send texts about bombing a boots, the ones who have some semblance of wit about themselves. They have to know what to look for and that involves studying the enemy.

Not at all.

Tactics used can just as easily catch a lone attacker with no ties to terrorist groups as much as it can catch a member of AQ. Their ideology is irrelevant as long as you keep tabs on mosques, churches, and keep your ear to the ground.

Uh, yeah. GCHQ is the bonger equivalent of the NSA, they do the same work on this side of the atlantic.

I know what GCHQ is.

Quote

Keeping tabs on mosques is the perfect fuel for creating more radicals, people who normally would just get on with their lives and religions being under constant scrutiny because they *might* be terrorists is a surefire way to generate some pissed off sentiments.

I don't think you understand what "keeping tabs" are. It's discretely keeping eyes and ears on someone/a group of people.

Quote

I don't get why you seem to be so against the study of twisted ideologies, it's no different to the research into pathogens. Knowing exactly what is causing the disease helps to cure it, if you know what is leading people to turn to radical ideologies then you can prevent others from doing the same. It's a better path to peace than just sitting and waiting for someone to turn and then gunning them down/locking them up for the rest of their life.

You really can't, though. We've studied the Nazis to death and there are more Neo Nazis every day.

There is genocide still being committed. You guys can say ">Africa" and make your little jokes all you want, but jacking off to Nazi documentaries hasn't stopped genocide worldwide.

An ideology can't be treated by studying it, because the basis of ideologies where you're supposed to hate people is based on natural traits, which is almost always fear or the need to blame others for your problems.

Ideologies come and go, they're just excuses for us to hate each other and act on that hatred.

Which inevitably comes to light, thus breeding more hatred. Discriminating against a group of people by singling them out for monitoring in that way doesn't foster goodwill, integration or assimilation. It makes the mistrust deeper.

Because not enough is being done to combat it in the right manner. The Exit Deutschland group is currently one of the only ones that seems to be dealing with this in the right manner. The combination of losing a social support structure and being subject to violence for leaving the organisations keep people in there. If that sounds like gangs it's because it's exactly how it works, organised crime to benefit those running the show and feeding bullshit ideology to those within the hierarchy. Why do they go there in the first place? Because they somehow are born hating the jews and the blacks? Or because they get led to join these places?

People aren't born racist as I'm sure you know, they learn it from others and what is learned can be unlearned. You just have to approach it correctly, that involves the study of it.

Now I'm not referring to wanking yourself silly over pictures of the holocaust and the latest ISIS beheading, that's utterly useless beyond documenting what has happened. It's the bigger picture, how hitler wormed his way into power and how ISIS propaganda is hitting home with all of the disillusioned muslims in the west. If you don't counter their mind war and just focus on the physical then they will win. Sure putting a bullet in them might kill one, maybe blowing hitler/al bagdadhi sky high would have stopped some of it but that just cycles the next lieutenant into power who continues the same shit.

You don't treat the ideology, you treat the people who are going to fall victim to it and become another gear in that machine. If someone is suckered into joining ISIS, they are first a victim and then a murdering bastard. If you can stop people from being led astray in the first place, you have prevented a murdering bastard from existing without any need for violence. Not that it doesn't have it's place, but you cannot hope to fight something like this with bullets and bombs. Look how Britain reacted to the Nazis bombing the bejeesus out of us during the blitz, it didn't do anything other than galvanize the will to crush them later on.

I'm sure you run into plenty of idolaters online, who do just jack off to this shit. That isn't studying the enemy, that's glorifying them. I don't have time for that but I do have time for the people who spend their lives getting inside the heads of the opposing side to figure out how to stop them. That's not done by you or I, or anyone who sits on liveleak all day but by the people employed by MI5/6 and the CIA etc.

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 03:27:55 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 27, 2015, 02:59:43 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 02:49:08 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 27, 2015, 02:32:18 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 01:58:37 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 27, 2015, 01:24:53 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 01:14:51 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 27, 2015, 01:03:28 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 12:00:04 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 27, 2015, 11:53:07 AM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on April 27, 2015, 11:47:31 AM

Quote from: PSU on April 27, 2015, 11:37:20 AM

But the mods leave a joke topic like this in serious?

Lol this fucking website

Surely you of all people would know that a controversial opinion =/= a joke.

Looking at the other viewpoint as to why some people might think it's justified (Such as the scumbags who committed the attack) can help to understand how to prevent that from happening again. Simply ignoring the psychology of the enemy isn't going to do anything other than bend over and present for the next one.

That's bogus. It doesn't matter why, what matters preparing so you can stop them from doing it again.

We had this same discussion over why people would study the nazis >.>

Understanding why something happens, how people are led to believe this evil and why they are predisposed to do so in the first place is key to making sure it never happens again.

I think it does matter why, quite a lot infact. Knowing your enemy is knowing how to defeat them, when you are fighting an ideology it's doubly so. Part of preparing to stop them from doing it again is knowing what to look for in other people.

Take the boston bomber for example, if everyone simply went 'Oh what an evil man, he must have been born a monster and is going to die a monster' rather than going 'Okay, so let's find out what kind of bullshit he ate up that led him to do this atrocity' then the next budding bomber is going to be harder to look for. If you find out that he spoke to this preacher, went to this camp and learned to make bombs from this guy you can then track people through those same networks and apprehend them before they strike.

That's called defending yourself properly. We know they're brainwashed by bullshit preachers.

That doesn't mean we need to study them in depth to understand they're crazy and think they're carrying out the invisible sky man's orders.

And you can't destroy an ideology.

Alright, so how do you propose defending ourselves against the jihadists? <.<

And I know this, but that doesn't mean you can't combat it at all. You just don't fight it with bullets and bombs as you would a conventional enemy.

This is why the NSA exists.

Indeed, and GCHQ too.

How do they know what to look for in the masses of data they sift through?
Aside from the Four Lions who send texts about bombing a boots, the ones who have some semblance of wit about themselves. They have to know what to look for and that involves studying the enemy.

Not at all.

Tactics used can just as easily catch a lone attacker with no ties to terrorist groups as much as it can catch a member of AQ. Their ideology is irrelevant as long as you keep tabs on mosques, churches, and keep your ear to the ground.

Uh, yeah. GCHQ is the bonger equivalent of the NSA, they do the same work on this side of the atlantic.

I know what GCHQ is.

Quote

Keeping tabs on mosques is the perfect fuel for creating more radicals, people who normally would just get on with their lives and religions being under constant scrutiny because they *might* be terrorists is a surefire way to generate some pissed off sentiments.

I don't think you understand what "keeping tabs" are. It's discretely keeping eyes and ears on someone/a group of people.

Quote

I don't get why you seem to be so against the study of twisted ideologies, it's no different to the research into pathogens. Knowing exactly what is causing the disease helps to cure it, if you know what is leading people to turn to radical ideologies then you can prevent others from doing the same. It's a better path to peace than just sitting and waiting for someone to turn and then gunning them down/locking them up for the rest of their life.

You really can't, though. We've studied the Nazis to death and there are more Neo Nazis every day.

There is genocide still being committed. You guys can say ">Africa" and make your little jokes all you want, but jacking off to Nazi documentaries hasn't stopped genocide worldwide.

An ideology can't be treated by studying it, because the basis of ideologies where you're supposed to hate people is based on natural traits, which is almost always fear or the need to blame others for your problems.

Ideologies come and go, they're just excuses for us to hate each other and act on that hatred.

Which inevitably comes to light, thus breeding more hatred. Discriminating against a group of people by singling them out for monitoring in that way doesn't foster goodwill, integration or assimilation. It makes the mistrust deeper.

Because not enough is being done to combat it in the right manner. The Exit Deutschland group is currently one of the only ones that seems to be dealing with this in the right manner. The combination of losing a social support structure and being subject to violence for leaving the organisations keep people in there. If that sounds like gangs it's because it's exactly how it works, organised crime to benefit those running the show and feeding bullshit ideology to those within the hierarchy. Why do they go there in the first place? Because they somehow are born hating the jews and the blacks? Or because they get led to join these places?

People aren't born racist as I'm sure you know, they learn it from others and what is learned can be unlearned. You just have to approach it correctly, that involves the study of it.

Now I'm not referring to wanking yourself silly over pictures of the holocaust and the latest ISIS beheading, that's utterly useless beyond documenting what has happened. It's the bigger picture, how hitler wormed his way into power and how ISIS propaganda is hitting home with all of the disillusioned muslims in the west. If you don't counter their mind war and just focus on the physical then they will win. Sure putting a bullet in them might kill one, maybe blowing hitler/al bagdadhi sky high would have stopped some of it but that just cycles the next lieutenant into power who continues the same shit.

You don't treat the ideology, you treat the people who are going to fall victim to it and become another gear in that machine. If someone is suckered into joining ISIS, they are first a victim and then a murdering bastard. If you can stop people from being led astray in the first place, you have prevented a murdering bastard from existing without any need for violence. Not that it doesn't have it's place, but you cannot hope to fight something like this with bullets and bombs. Look how Britain reacted to the Nazis bombing the bejeesus out of us during the blitz, it didn't do anything other than galvanize the will to crush them later on.

I'm sure you run into plenty of idolaters online, who do just jack off to this shit. That isn't studying the enemy, that's glorifying them. I don't have time for that but I do have time for the people who spend their lives getting inside the heads of the opposing side to figure out how to stop them. That's not done by you or I, or anyone who sits on liveleak all day but by the people employed by MI5/6 and the CIA etc.

You can't really tell these people to change how they think. They have to want to do that.

The sad truth is you can only educate people so much if they don't want to be educated.

Indeed, which is why you have to get to them before this starts to set in <.<

It can be something as mundane as just more community involvement and the like, the tories are doing some kind of token gesture at 'instilling british values' in our yoof but hell they are at least on the right track about it. You start young and make them into better citizens, rather than just leaving everyone to their own devices when it comes to that sort of shit. It doesn't have to go full fledged scream the pledge or die, because that's again counter-intuitive, but finding ways to integrate people rather than leaving them to turn into outcasts is a start.