There's literally no policy on Earth that's going to halt, or even postpone climate change at this point. China and India are shitting out coal emissions like there's no tomorrow. Even if by some international, logistical miracle we all managed to stop emitting CO2, too late, we fucked it anyway.Maybe it's just the cynic in me talking, but I wouldn't get worked up over a policy that was a fruitless endeavour anyway.
I don't agree with Trump's actions here, but Obama's EPA was a meme. If Trump gets rid of environmental regulations, then they'll just be handled at the state level like most of them already are anyway.
China will plow 2.5 trillion yuan ($361 billion) into renewable power generation by 2020, the country's energy agency said on Thursday, as the world's largest energy market continues to shift away from dirty coal power towards cleaner fuels.
The investment will create over 13 million jobs in the sector, the National Energy Administration (NEA) said in a blueprint document that lays out its plan to develop the nation's energy sector during the five-year 2016 to 2020 period.
the investment reflects Beijing's continued focus on curbing the use of fossil fuels, which have fostered the country's economic growth over the past decade, as it ramps up its war on pollution.
China became the world's top solar generator last year.
revive the coal industry
Quote from: prehistoric on March 28, 2017, 07:56:19 PMQuote from: Anglosaxophone on March 28, 2017, 07:12:48 PMThere's literally no policy on Earth that's going to halt, or even postpone climate change at this point. China and India are shitting out coal emissions like there's no tomorrow. Even if by some international, logistical miracle we all managed to stop emitting CO2, too late, we fucked it anyway.Maybe it's just the cynic in me talking, but I wouldn't get worked up over a policy that was a fruitless endeavour anyway.Pretty much.I disagree. Haven't we had this exact conversation before? Just because we have caused some form of climate change and are bound to reach a certain higher temperature doesn't mean that we can't stop it from getting worse or mitigate the effects. Saying otherwise goes against what is to my knowledge the vast scientific consensus and ignores the fact that there's still thousands of researchers and experts out there looking for solutions and presenting beneficial policies.NASA, for example, agrees. It first concedes that "Humans have caused major climate changes to happen already, and we have set in motion more changes still. Even if we stopped emitting greenhouse gases today, global warming would continue to happen for at least several more decades if not centuries." But then goes on to add that "But it may not be too late to avoid or limit some of the worst effects of climate change. Responding to climate change will involve a two-tier approach: 1) “mitigation” – reducing the flow of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere; and 2) “adaptation” – learning to live with, and adapt to, the climate change that has already been set in motion. "And it's not just them. The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Chief also said that it is not too late to avoid even more dangerous rises in temperature. Same goes for other scientists and research papers, who still maintain that "the only way out is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions as soon as possible", or the Yale Climate Connections project saying that such pessimism is a dangerous myth. Even the most renowned US climate change scientist who was one of the first to say that it's too late to still avoid some degree of global warming still says that prompt steps must be taken, including the implementation of a carbon-emission tax on fracking companies and legal actions against governments, to press them to cut down emissions. "The science is crystal clear, we have to phase out emissions over the next few decades. That won’t happen without substantial actions by Congress and the executive branch..."When you forgot about the bath you have filling up and open the door to a half flooded bathroom, you don't go "well, guess that's it, so I might as well turn the faucet open all the way because I've already got water everywhere". Trump's actions are dumb and anti-scientific as shit. Yes, global warming will happen and it's going to change the way we live and interact with our world in the (near) future. But just how bad it's going to get and how we deal with it is still something we can change. This isn't a bomb with a timer set to get off in 2 seconds that we can't do anything about. It's a spreading wildfire that is sure to take place but can still be contained and limited to a significant extent.
Quote from: Anglosaxophone on March 28, 2017, 07:12:48 PMThere's literally no policy on Earth that's going to halt, or even postpone climate change at this point. China and India are shitting out coal emissions like there's no tomorrow. Even if by some international, logistical miracle we all managed to stop emitting CO2, too late, we fucked it anyway.Maybe it's just the cynic in me talking, but I wouldn't get worked up over a policy that was a fruitless endeavour anyway.Pretty much.
Quote from: Anglosaxophone on March 28, 2017, 07:12:48 PMThere's literally no policy on Earth that's going to halt, or even postpone climate change at this point. China and India are shitting out coal emissions like there's no tomorrow. Even if by some international, logistical miracle we all managed to stop emitting CO2, too late, we fucked it anyway.Maybe it's just the cynic in me talking, but I wouldn't get worked up over a policy that was a fruitless endeavour anyway.http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-china-energy-renewables-idUKKBN14P06PQuoteChina will plow 2.5 trillion yuan ($361 billion) into renewable power generation by 2020, the country's energy agency said on Thursday, as the world's largest energy market continues to shift away from dirty coal power towards cleaner fuels.QuoteThe investment will create over 13 million jobs in the sector, the National Energy Administration (NEA) said in a blueprint document that lays out its plan to develop the nation's energy sector during the five-year 2016 to 2020 period.Quotethe investment reflects Beijing's continued focus on curbing the use of fossil fuels, which have fostered the country's economic growth over the past decade, as it ramps up its war on pollution.QuoteChina became the world's top solar generator last year.Contrary to your post China is actually making an effort to cut down on fossil fuels and they're creating jobs in the process the US should do the same instead of trying to revive dead industries.
Quote from: gats on March 29, 2017, 04:04:22 AMQuote from: Anglosaxophone on March 28, 2017, 07:12:48 PMThere's literally no policy on Earth that's going to halt, or even postpone climate change at this point. China and India are shitting out coal emissions like there's no tomorrow. Even if by some international, logistical miracle we all managed to stop emitting CO2, too late, we fucked it anyway.Maybe it's just the cynic in me talking, but I wouldn't get worked up over a policy that was a fruitless endeavour anyway.http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-china-energy-renewables-idUKKBN14P06PQuoteChina will plow 2.5 trillion yuan ($361 billion) into renewable power generation by 2020, the country's energy agency said on Thursday, as the world's largest energy market continues to shift away from dirty coal power towards cleaner fuels.QuoteThe investment will create over 13 million jobs in the sector, the National Energy Administration (NEA) said in a blueprint document that lays out its plan to develop the nation's energy sector during the five-year 2016 to 2020 period.Quotethe investment reflects Beijing's continued focus on curbing the use of fossil fuels, which have fostered the country's economic growth over the past decade, as it ramps up its war on pollution.QuoteChina became the world's top solar generator last year.Contrary to your post China is actually making an effort to cut down on fossil fuels and they're creating jobs in the process the US should do the same instead of trying to revive dead industries.Good for them. Won't help much, but good for them.I'm not a climate expert, but maybe we should be investing in the idea of preparing our societies for the impact of climate change, rather than trying to resuscitate an already fucked planet. Seems like a more proactive use of resources.
Quote from: Anglosaxophone on March 28, 2017, 07:12:48 PMThere's literally no policy on Earth that's going to halt, or even postpone climate change at this point. China and India are shitting out coal emissions like there's no tomorrow. Even if by some international, logistical miracle we all managed to stop emitting CO2, too late, we fucked it anyway.Maybe it's just the cynic in me talking, but I wouldn't get worked up over a policy that was a fruitless endeavour anyway.Well yes - but that doesn't mean the answer is to roll back important regulations in the hopes that it will resuscitate an industry that is dying, not solely because of regulation, but innovation. This decision by Trump has only negative outcomes and it's ridiculous to act like it's a silly issue.
Quote from: Anglosaxophone on March 29, 2017, 09:36:20 AMQuote from: gats on March 29, 2017, 04:04:22 AMQuote from: Anglosaxophone on March 28, 2017, 07:12:48 PMThere's literally no policy on Earth that's going to halt, or even postpone climate change at this point. China and India are shitting out coal emissions like there's no tomorrow. Even if by some international, logistical miracle we all managed to stop emitting CO2, too late, we fucked it anyway.Maybe it's just the cynic in me talking, but I wouldn't get worked up over a policy that was a fruitless endeavour anyway.http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-china-energy-renewables-idUKKBN14P06PQuoteChina will plow 2.5 trillion yuan ($361 billion) into renewable power generation by 2020, the country's energy agency said on Thursday, as the world's largest energy market continues to shift away from dirty coal power towards cleaner fuels.QuoteThe investment will create over 13 million jobs in the sector, the National Energy Administration (NEA) said in a blueprint document that lays out its plan to develop the nation's energy sector during the five-year 2016 to 2020 period.Quotethe investment reflects Beijing's continued focus on curbing the use of fossil fuels, which have fostered the country's economic growth over the past decade, as it ramps up its war on pollution.QuoteChina became the world's top solar generator last year.Contrary to your post China is actually making an effort to cut down on fossil fuels and they're creating jobs in the process the US should do the same instead of trying to revive dead industries.Good for them. Won't help much, but good for them.I'm not a climate expert, but maybe we should be investing in the idea of preparing our societies for the impact of climate change, rather than trying to resuscitate an already fucked planet. Seems like a more proactive use of resources.what if, gasp, if was possible to do both
Please elucidate on your magical solution that allows every nation on Earth to miraculously cooperate into curtailing the prospect of further climate change damage then.Or equally, you could just post snarky gifs. That's fine too.
Quote from: Anglosaxophone on March 29, 2017, 09:55:46 AMPlease elucidate on your magical solution that allows every nation on Earth to miraculously cooperate into curtailing the prospect of further climate change damage then.Or equally, you could just post snarky gifs. That's fine too.The G20 needs to agree on shared limits of emission and promote greener energy sources.China and India are the main exhaust pipes of the planet, but look how good the nature situation is in Iceland and Sweden due to their green policies.
Quote from: FatherlyNick on March 29, 2017, 09:59:04 AMQuote from: Anglosaxophone on March 29, 2017, 09:55:46 AMPlease elucidate on your magical solution that allows every nation on Earth to miraculously cooperate into curtailing the prospect of further climate change damage then.Or equally, you could just post snarky gifs. That's fine too.The G20 needs to agree on shared limits of emission and promote greener energy sources.China and India are the main exhaust pipes of the planet, but look how good the nature situation is in Iceland and Sweden due to their green policies.Actually no overall it's China, US and EU then India. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions
Quote from: gats on March 29, 2017, 10:05:09 AMQuote from: FatherlyNick on March 29, 2017, 09:59:04 AMQuote from: Anglosaxophone on March 29, 2017, 09:55:46 AMPlease elucidate on your magical solution that allows every nation on Earth to miraculously cooperate into curtailing the prospect of further climate change damage then.Or equally, you could just post snarky gifs. That's fine too.The G20 needs to agree on shared limits of emission and promote greener energy sources.China and India are the main exhaust pipes of the planet, but look how good the nature situation is in Iceland and Sweden due to their green policies.Actually no overall it's China, US and EU then India. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissionslol, then wtf are people here even talking about.US need stricter regulations then if you're an exhaust pipe country.
Trump signs executive order undoing Obama's climate change policies
