TPP trade deal

RubMyBelly69 | Posting Spree
 
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Surprised no one made a thread about this yet.

I'm uneasy as it seems to give leverage to corporations that are already well off, and from what I've read about the specifics, I don't know how small business owners of the various countries (namely poorer ones in this context) can compete with larger multinational corporations in regards to agriculture or pharmaceuticals for example.

Does have a more elaborate opinion about TPP?


Mad Max | Mythic Invincible!
 
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I don't know enough about it to have an opinion on.


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uhhh...

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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Anybody who seriously opposed TPP on the basis of MUH CORPORATE INFLUENCE isn't paying attention, shouldn't be allowed to speak about the issue and should probably be shot too.


 
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Anybody who seriously opposed TPP on the basis of MUH CORPORATE INFLUENCE isn't paying attention, shouldn't be allowed to speak about the issue and should probably be shot too.

Is it good or bad?



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Anybody who seriously opposed TPP on the basis of MUH CORPORATE INFLUENCE isn't paying attention, shouldn't be allowed to speak about the issue and should probably be shot too.
I'm glad Meta is still the supreme leader of all things economics around here...


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Anybody who seriously opposed TPP on the basis of MUH CORPORATE INFLUENCE isn't paying attention, shouldn't be allowed to speak about the issue and should probably be shot too.

Is it good or bad?
Depends who you ask.

Most economists tend to support it, and a lot of stuff in the media (particularly surrounding pharmaceuticals) is hot air. Some economists, such as Joseph Stiglitz and Paul Krugman, offer lukewarm opposition--the former on the basis of IP laws and the latter on the basis that the political capital simply isn't worth it, IIRC.


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If I'm not here, I'm doing photography. Or I'm asleep. Or in lockdown. One of those three, anyway.

The current titlebar/avatar setup is just normal.
No one can really comment on it yet as the legalese is still being ironed out and the final document hasn't been released. Until then, there's not much to say (or complain) about it without sounding ignorant.



 
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Free trade is best trade.


 
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You guys seem to know a lot. Can someone educate me on what exactly it is, in a coherent and hopefully not too long manner? Because I hear a bunch of shit from both sides but really DON'T get it.


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I'm uneasy as it seems to give leverage to corporations that are already well off

I really don't see that. There's a huge outcry against corporations purportedly being able to sue the government over loss of profits, but it's really not like that. It allows corporations to sue a government that violates the trade agreement via tribunals. It's a very common in trade agreements.


RubMyBelly69 | Posting Spree
 
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Anybody who seriously opposed TPP on the basis of MUH CORPORATE INFLUENCE isn't paying attention, shouldn't be allowed to speak about the issue and should probably be shot too.

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2015/10/06/tpp-deal-expected-to-shake-up-japans-agriculture-sector/

Quote
The trade agreement will provide easier access to Japan for products such as California rice, Canadian pork, Australian beef and New Zealand butter. In the face of greater competition, many small Japanese farmers could be taken over by large enterprise operators...Still, he said he is aware that many farmers are worried about a possible influx of cheap imports.
Quote
Japan will maintain a whopping 778% tariff on imported rice, but has agreed to increase the quota for rice imports from the U.S. and Australia, by 78,000 tons to a total of 850,000 tons a year, which is about 10% of annual domestic consumption.
Quote
The changes could further depress domestic rice prices, which hit their lowest level in decades last year as consumption continues to decline.

I don't oppose TPP only because it's going to have a net positive effect on the macro level, but there's no doubt that a sizable portion of small time farmers, globally, will be severely tested with the surge of competition that will result from much of the lowered or removed tariffs. It might make a lot of people's lives a lot more difficult is all I'm really saying.
Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 10:06:22 PM by wheredoesmattercomefrom


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this belongs in the metal gear thread


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The largest drawbacks are how it will pave future internet applications and most likely depress local businesses.


RubMyBelly69 | Posting Spree
 
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I'm uneasy as it seems to give leverage to corporations that are already well off

I really don't see that. There's a huge outcry against corporations purportedly being able to sue the government over loss of profits, but it's really not like that. It allows corporations to sue a government that violates the trade agreement via tribunals. It's a very common in trade agreements.

I didn't even think about that, but I guess I was alluding to how the pharmaceutical industry will benefit at the cost of parties who can't really adapt as well, this sort of highlights it

Quote
Biologics are treatments made from biological sources, including vaccines, anti-toxins, proteins, and monoclonal antibodies for everything from Ebola to cancer...are therefore more difficult and expensive to make, costing on average 22 times more than nonbiologic drugs

As part of the TPP, the United States (and the pharmaceutical lobby) had been pushing to get every country to agree on 12 years of data protection for biologics. The final agreement falls somewhere in between, with a period of data exclusivity from at least five to eight years, according to the New York Times.

This means the agreement will prevent more affordable biosimilars from entering the market for a longer period of time in places that previously had no bar to entry. And the burden of this provision will be felt by the world's poorest countries

"Peru, Vietnam, Malaysia, and Mexico โ€” they had zero monopoly protection on data for biologics," she said. Now they'll have to wait at least five years before allowing cheaper biosimilars onto the market. "It's a loss for people in developing countries. They'll face higher prices for longer periods of time, and there are many products we need that are biologics."

http://www.vox.com/2015/10/5/9454511/tpp-cost-medicine

just an example I guess, but yeah still I'm confident TPP will probably be a net positive thing


 
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I can only imagine the response had I said this.


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TPP is fucked up and senseless, yet another way the WTO is abusing its power.


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I'm also really confused, because liberals were all for TPP when conservatives weren't in favor, and then they came around to it, so now liberals are wholly against it. Let's just agree on some shit for once.


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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
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I'm never in favor of the WTO. It's truly an evil group.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Anybody who seriously opposed TPP on the basis of MUH CORPORATE INFLUENCE isn't paying attention, shouldn't be allowed to speak about the issue and should probably be shot too.

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2015/10/06/tpp-deal-expected-to-shake-up-japans-agriculture-sector/

Quote
The trade agreement will provide easier access to Japan for products such as California rice, Canadian pork, Australian beef and New Zealand butter. In the face of greater competition, many small Japanese farmers could be taken over by large enterprise operators...Still, he said he is aware that many farmers are worried about a possible influx of cheap imports.
Quote
Japan will maintain a whopping 778% tariff on imported rice, but has agreed to increase the quota for rice imports from the U.S. and Australia, by 78,000 tons to a total of 850,000 tons a year, which is about 10% of annual domestic consumption.
Quote
The changes could further depress domestic rice prices, which hit their lowest level in decades last year as consumption continues to decline.

I don't oppose TPP only because it's going to have a net positive effect on the macro level, but there's no doubt that a sizable portion of small time farmers, globally, will be severely tested with the surge of competition that will result from much of the lowered or removed tariffs. It might make a lot of people's lives a lot more difficult is all I'm really saying.
This is good; domestic protection of agriculture makes everybody worse off.


 
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This is good; domestic protection of agriculture makes everybody worse off.
name all zero ways, please


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
This is good; domestic protection of agriculture makes everybody worse off.
name all zero ways, please
Higher food prices.


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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

He is Ainu.

The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
This is good; domestic protection of agriculture makes everybody worse off.
Out of curiousity, are there any statistics on how outsourcing jobs affect unemployment?


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
This is good; domestic protection of agriculture makes everybody worse off.
name all zero ways, please
Blocking poorer regions of the world out of agricultural markets and raising food prices for domestic consumers doesn't make people worse off?


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
This is good; domestic protection of agriculture makes everybody worse off.
Out of curiousity, are there any statistics on how outsourcing jobs affect unemployment?
Besides short-run labour disruption, there are no impacts on unemployment. Some literature suggests jobs are insourced as much as they are outsourced:

>US production for widget A moves to Vietnam
>People in Vietnam now have more money, they consume widget B but they lack the institutional & skills development necessary to produce widget B.
>US production for widget B increases offsetting employment losses from widget A moving offshore. This increases the skills profile of US labor increasing wages and working conditions. Real wages also increase due to the fall in the prices prices of widget A in the US.

Otherwise, monetary policy can usually smooth-out disruptions and remove slack in the labour market. If you want some actual reading, take a look at Krugman's "A Country is not a Company". It's available online.



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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

He is Ainu.

The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
This is good; domestic protection of agriculture makes everybody worse off.
Out of curiousity, are there any statistics on how outsourcing jobs affect unemployment?
Besides short-run labour disruption, there are no impacts on unemployment. Some literature suggests jobs are insourced as much as they are outsourced:

>US production for widget A moves to Vietnam
>People in Vietnam now have more money, they consume widget B but they lack the institutional & skills development necessary to produce widget B.
>US production for widget B increases offsetting employment losses from widget A moving offshore. This increases the skills profile of US labor increasing wages and working conditions. Real wages also increase due to the fall in the prices prices of widget A in the US.

Otherwise, monetary policy can usually smooth-out disruptions and remove slack in the labour market. If you want some actual reading, take a look at Krugman's "A Country is not a Company". It's available online.
I wasn't looking for an explanation, I already know that outsourcing is incredibly beneficial economically. I just wanted the numbers behind it to see the degree that local and national economies are affected.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
I just wanted the numbers behind it to see the degree that local and national economies are affected.
I'll try and find a paper or two.