Quote from: LC on September 17, 2015, 12:21:56 AM

But there was an article run by ABC a few years ago on the subject.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=97836

"'This is something we've been aware of for a long time,' admits Jack Norris, president of Vegan Outreach in Davis, Calif. . .It's obvious that some animals die when their land is taken away for farming, Norris says, 'but you take it away only once.' It doesn't lead to the continuous slaughter of animals for human consumption, he contends, because once the land is turned into a farm, there aren't that many animals around to kill."

Hmmmmmm.

"Davis admits he doesn't really know how many animals are lost each year to agriculture, but he suspects it runs in the millions."

Millions. Wow. Sure, let's just trust this ONE GUY based on his random, rule of thumb judgment he more than likely pulled out his ass. Who the fuck is this Davis guy? Where's his research? Where's his proof? Where's his evidence? Where's anything?

Into the trash it goes.

Quote

Truly calling the person you're conversing with an idiot and telling them to never talk again is the best way of having a civil conversation.

you've shown, time and time again, that you're undeserving of civil conversation

It explains exactly where there isn't a concrete number in the article. Farmers don't take count of whats on their land before and after they start harvesting. Why? Because it doesn't make a difference.

The ABC article also misrepresents his position and the language they use is misleading.

Link to the actual paper where the estimation is that there are 1.8 billion animals killed per year in the US alone during the process of creating the vegan diet.
https://www.morehouse.edu/facstaff/nnobis/papers/Davis-LeastHarm.htm

Jack Norris also fails to mention that animals move back in once the crops grow back. It's a continuous cycle. He completely fails to mention the crop part of it and is only focusing on the untamed land being turned into suitable farmland part.


Having a different opinion than you doesn't make me undeserving of a civil conversation.


EDIT: You're doing that thing again where you get flustered and start posting multiple times in quick succession instead of keeping it all in one post.

You're being pedantic and taking that literally in an effort to defame me. Of course it's greater than a just a few million. Especially when you're thinking on a world wide scale. The point is that blood is shed either way, so acting like veganism is bloodless is silly. Which is exactly what the video in the OP of the thread is doing.

Quote from: LC on September 17, 2015, 12:45:29 AM

The point is that blood is shed either way, so acting like veganism is bloodless is silly. Which is exactly what the video in the OP of the thread is doing.

I don't think that's what it's doing at all—was there a specific part in the video that said, "Veganism is bloodless"? I don't remember that, maybe I'll have to watch it again.

But it's a short two minute video designed to get people to consider veganism. That's it. I don't see why it has to cover every little caveat of the choice when it's basically a commercial. You can call it disingenuous or hypocritical, but I just think you're being a petty weasel.

The part where it says that going vegan means you aren't part of a system that kills animals "there are no people animals... victims, or consequences on the second track. What if I told you that this isn't hypothetical?".

Which is just flat out false. Wanting people to be honest isn't petty.