Oh for fuck's sake.

Yes, if veganism were as simple as pulling a lever and saving five animals, many people would ascribe to it. But it's not, because it turns out life is more complicated than a stupid, contrived situation. And just a reminder that eating a vegan diet doesn't actually save any animals; it would take a massive, species-wide change to do so, and that's only feasible once the vast majority of people are living affluent, privileged lifestyles that grant the freedom of wealth to afford an expensive, catered approach to food consumption.

Then there's also the elaphant in the room of more blood being shed harvesting a field of corn than there is a heard of cattle.

The lives of amphibians, birds, rodents, and other small animals don't matter I guess.

Quote from: LC on September 16, 2015, 07:23:54 PM

Even when some species of these small animals are just as "intelligent" as the cattle we consume?

Depends on the trade-off we see with how many intelligent animals get killed within each process. And even then there a number of things to consider, such as:

- People already consume crops as well as meat, it's disingenuous to phrase it as a choice between the two.

Well then I guess it's a good thing that no one in here is doing that. A vegan that gets their food from industrial agriculture has just as much blood on their hands as someone who eats both meat and plant matter though.

Unless you're growing your own food you may as well be the pot calling the kettle black.

- Greater consumption of non-meat foodstuff would probably result in greater investment in things like hydroponics.

"probably"

Hydroponics is just an expensive way to achieve the same result as traditional agriculture with the added benefit of making you feel good. You're a capitalist meta, you should know that hydroponics will never replace traditional agriculture as it'll always be cheaper and thus yield a greater profit.

- Lesser consumption of meat would probably result in greater investment in synthetic meat.

There's that "probably" again.

An influx of synthetic meat would just make real meat a highly sought after luxury good in the west.

Quote from: LC on September 16, 2015, 10:38:34 PM

A vegan that gets their food from industrial agriculture has just as much blood on their hands as someone who eats both meat and plant matter though.

Yeah, that's totally not stretching it at all.

you just seem bitter towards vegans, tbh
did you get fucked over by one in a debate or something

I'm not bitter at all and I've never been fucked over by a vegan in a debate ever.

It's just fact that millions of animals are killed every year in the making of the vegan and vegetarian diet. Same with the omnivorous diet. You can't avoid it and trying to claim one or the other is perfect and bloodless/ethically better is just silly.

The only way you'll actually be able to avoid a pot and kettle situation is if you're growing your own fruits and vegetables. If you want to go that route then go ahead and do it. More power to you man.

Quote from: LC on September 17, 2015, 12:00:06 AM

It's just fact that millions of animals are killed every year in the making of the vegan and vegetarian diet. Same with the omnivorous diet. You can't avoid it and trying to claim one or the other is perfect and bloodless/ethically better is just silly.

first of all, let's see some sources

second, you're missing the point that veganism is not just a diet—it's a philosophical position that anyone can take, even if they still consume animal products. it's a simple concession that what you're doing is wrong and makes you a cunt

third, you're somehow implying that the meat industry, which is built around the systemic torture and slaughter of animals, is the same thing as the inadvertent collateral damage that comes as a result of crop harvesting

fourth, you're implying that we can't take measures to make crop harvesting safer for wildlife

fifth, you're an idiot, never post again

If you've ever worked on a farm or known anybody who has you'd know that killing small animals is an unavoidable part of harvesting crops.

But there was an article run by ABC a few years ago on the subject.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=97836

The subject of this is about veganism as a diet though, so the philosophical part of it doesn't play in. And like, that's just your opinion man.

I'm saying that there are still millions of animals killed every year as a direct result of humans harvesting crops for consumption. Veganism still has blood on its hands. Animals are still killed and displaced as a result of human crop harvesting.

As a side note, calling it torture is a bit much imo, but yeah, opinions.

You can, but it wont be viable for the vast majority of farmers.

Truly calling the person you're conversing with an idiot and telling them to never talk again is the best way of having a civil conversation.