Foetal Alcohol Syndrome case dismissed by the court of appeal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30327893
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A child born with foetal alcohol syndrome is not legally entitled to compensation after her mother drank excessively while pregnant, the Court of Appeal has ruled.

The seven-year-old girl was born with severe brain damage and is now in care.

Lawyers argued her mother had poisoned her foetus but appeal judges ruled she had not committed a criminal offence.

The case was brought by a council in the North West of England, which cannot be named for legal reasons.
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    It's not about women's rights, it's not about criminalising women”

Neil Sugarman Solicitor

It had been argued the woman ignored warnings and drank a "grossly excessive" amount of alcohol while pregnant.

She consumed eight cans of strong lager and half a bottle of vodka a day, the court heard.

Three appeal judges at the Court of Appeal had to rule on whether or not the girl was entitled to a payout from the government-funded Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme as a victim of crime.

But Lord Justice Treacy said an "essential ingredient" for a crime to be committed "is the infliction of grievous bodily harm on a person - grievous bodily harm on a foetus will not suffice".
'Hugely important' case

The girl, who cannot be named and was referred to in court as CP, suffers with learning, development, memory and behavioural problems.

BBC News legal correspondent Clive Coleman said the case was significant because it centred on whether or not a foetus was considered a person, independent of its mother.

He said: "This case was hugely important, because campaigners argued that if the Court of Appeal had said it was possible for a mother to commit a crime by poisoning her foetus with excessive alcohol, it would have had the effect of criminalising pregnant women who drank excessively, knowing the dangers of alcohol to their foetus."
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Foetal alcohol syndrome

Heavy drinking during pregnancy can lead to foetal alcohol syndrome (FAS).

Alcohol passes across the placenta from the mother to the developing foetus.

But the foetus cannot process alcohol effectively until the liver is fully developed and the high levels of alcohol can affect the development of organs and the brain.

Children with FAS are born with a range of disabilities, are often shorter than average and some have learning and behavioural difficulties.

People with the syndrome can have differences in their facial features such as a flat nose bridge, a small head and a thin upper lip.

It is thought that foetuses are most at risk during the first three months of pregnancy when organs are forming - but damage can occur at any time.
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John Foy QC, representing the council that has responsibility for CP, told the court her mother drank the equivalent of 40-57 units of alcohol a day.

National Institute for Health and Care (Nice) guidelines suggest 7.5 units daily might damage a foetus.

Mr Foy said the young mother, for whom it was a second pregnancy, was aware of the dangers, adding: "She was reckless as to whether there would be harm to the foetus.

"She foresaw that harm might be caused but went on to take the risk."

Ben Collins, appearing for the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority (CICA) had asked the court to reject the legal challenge, telling the judges: "There is a conflict of ideas about what is or is not dangerous, not only in terms of drink but also in terms of smoking and food."

He asked whether "a pregnant mother who eats unpasteurised cheese or a soft boiled egg knowing there is a risk that it could give rise to a risk of harm to the foetus" could be accused of a crime.

The British Pregnancy Advisory Service (Bpas) and the childbirth charity Birthrights welcomed the ruling.
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Mum "Kathryn" tells 5 live she drank up to two bottles of wine a day whilst pregnant

Rebecca Schiller, co-chair of Birthrights, and Bpas chief executive Ann Furedi said it was "an extremely important ruling for women everywhere".

"The UK's highest courts have recognised that women must be able to make their own decisions about their pregnancies," they said.

"Both the immediate and broader implications of the case were troubling. In seeking to establish that the damage caused to a foetus through heavy drinking was a criminal offence, the case called into question women's legal status while pregnant, and right to make their own decisions."
'Wake-up call'

Neil Sugarman, the solicitor acting for CP, said the decision was "clearly disappointing" and that the case was not about women's rights or "criminalising women".

He said GLP Solicitors, of which he is managing partner, represents about 80 other children with FAS and that they would now be looking at the implications of the ruling.

The only legal option left is to seek to take the case to the Supreme Court.

Julia Brown, chief executive of the Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders (FASD) Trust, told the BBC the case highlighted the need for pregnant women to be given advice about drinking, and support to stop drinking if necessary.

"There are no winners in a case like this," she added, saying she hoped it would be a "wake-up call" to make people think about the dangers of drinking when pregnant.

The NHS recommends that pregnant women should not drink at all - adding that those who choose to have a drink should have no more than two units of alcohol once or twice a week.

He said: "This case was hugely important, because campaigners argued that if the Court of Appeal had said it was possible for a mother to commit a crime by poisoning her foetus with excessive alcohol, it would have had the effect of criminalising pregnant women who drank excessively, knowing the dangers of alcohol to their foetus."

Let me just say, Boo Fucking Hoo.
Why on earth shouldn't it be a crime to do that to your child?
Chugging 8 cans of strong lager and half a bottle of vodka a day whilst pregnant should be legal?
Are you fucking kidding me.

What do the rest of you think?
Should it be criminalised or not? <.<

I'm not sure criminalised is the word...
On one hand, there are genuinely ignorant people out there that don't understand why that's wrong.

On the other, it's clear here that she knew what she was doing and she acted to purposefully to kill the foetus.
So yeah, that's wrong, if you want an abortion, go through the proper channels, don't be a monster about it.

Should it be criminalized, in the sense that the mother go to jail? No (Unless the baby dies from directly related conditions).

I do agree, there are genuinely ignorant people that don't understand the consequences of alcohol on children (Especially in some places here in the US with absolutely appalling health courses in school) - more attention should be given from OBGYN's to explain to the mother's the effects of too much alcohol on newborn infants prior to birth, the various health risks, etc.

At the same time, if the mother chooses to ignore the risks and drink like an Irishman anyway, then yes. She should face some penalty.

Should it be criminalized, in the sense that the mother go to jail? No (Unless the baby dies from directly related conditions).

I do agree, there are genuinely ignorant people that don't understand the consequences of alcohol on children (Especially in some places here in the US with absolutely appalling health courses in school) - more attention should be given from OBGYN's to explain to the mother's the effects of too much alcohol on newborn infants prior to birth, the various health risks, etc.

At the same time, if the mother chooses to ignore the risks and drink like an Irishman anyway, then yes. She should face some penalty.

Hmm yeah, perhaps not to jail <.<
I think to dismiss the compensation claim though, that's just wrong. It's clearly her fault the kid is fubar, so why the hell shouldn't she have to pay towards it's care .___________.

Should it be criminalized, in the sense that the mother go to jail? No (Unless the baby dies from directly related conditions).

I do agree, there are genuinely ignorant people that don't understand the consequences of alcohol on children (Especially in some places here in the US with absolutely appalling health courses in school) - more attention should be given from OBGYN's to explain to the mother's the effects of too much alcohol on newborn infants prior to birth, the various health risks, etc.

At the same time, if the mother chooses to ignore the risks and drink like an Irishman anyway, then yes. She should face some penalty.

Hmm yeah, perhaps not to jail <.<
I think to dismiss the compensation claim though, that's just wrong. It's clearly her fault the kid is fubar, so why the hell shouldn't she have to pay towards it's care .___________.

Because Britbongistan.

Couldn't really tell you.

This is fucking child abuse. Send her ass to prison for a good 3 years and compensate the child

As a foetal alcohol syndrome baby, I can tell you through my life experience that it's not that bad.  Sure, my facial features look like they are experiencing continental drift across my face and I talk funny, but people look past that in today's society.  Putting my mom in jail wouldn't have helped the situation.

Putting my mom in jail wouldn't have helped the situation.

If she was caught abusing you at an early age, she being behind bars would have prevented her from continuing the abuse. But she we not put murderers behind bar, despite them from already committing the crime?

Putting my mom in jail wouldn't have helped the situation.

If she was caught abusing you at an early age, she being behind bars would have prevented her from continuing the abuse. But she we not put murderers behind bar, despite them from already committing the crime?

I feel prison food would be far worse for a fetus than a little alcohol.  Also, foetal alcohol syndrome isn't equivelent to murder.  I'd chalk it up next to circumcision, instead of the scrotum though it's brain circumcision.  I don't really see the negative as it's purely subjective.

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To Devil's advocate, could one not make the argument that restricting a pregnant women from drinking while pregnant is a form of violation of bodily autonomy?

It depends whether you hold a woman's autonomy over the life of a developing fetus.

I imagine this, if passed, would have created precedent for a total ban on abortion.

I'd chalk it up next to circumcision, instead of the scrotum though

I don't think you know what circumcision is.

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Shit, I thought it already was criminal to do such a thing. That's horrific.

I don't think it should be criminal for pregnant woman to be necessarily in trouble for being ignorant to an extent - I didn't know unpasteurized cheese or a hard boiled egg is damaging to a foetus, but it's kinda common sense for drinks seeing as alcohol is a fucking poison, and has warning labels pasted all over them.

I'd go as far as saying that if you intend to drink while pregnant, especially such a fucking ridiculous amount as this woman did, then you may as well just abort the poor thing. Hereditary diseases/conditions are one thing, but purposefully fucking up your offspring in that way is disgusting.

Bah, I'm pissed off now, not even gif-worthy.

It's a form of child abuse, or negligence at the very least. To not know that alcohol is a poison, and that poison is bad for fetuses, is about as unacceptably stupid as not knowing it's bad to leave infants alone in water.

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I'd chalk it up next to circumcision, instead of the scrotum though

I don't think you know what circumcision is.

I think Sly needs an anatomy lesson.

It's fucked up but I'm always against just throwing folks in prison. Solves nothing.

Should it be criminalized? No, we need to educate people to not do drugs during pregnancy.

Unfortunately, there will still be people who ignore what they're told and do it anyway. What do we do then?

I'd chalk it up next to circumcision, instead of the scrotum though

I don't think you know what circumcision is.

I think Sly needs an anatomy lesson.

I'd chalk it up next to circumcision, instead of the scrotum though

I don't think you know what circumcision is.

I think Sly needs an anatomy lesson.

lolcosby

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It's fucked up but I'm always against just throwing folks in prison. Solves nothing.

Should it be criminalized? No, we need to educate people to not do drugs during pregnancy.

Unfortunately, there will still be people who ignore what they're told and do it anyway. What do we do then?

Fine them or something. Jail is fucking bullshit.

I'd wager that most of the offenders are already poor. How do you fine someone who is already broke?

I feel as if saying "yes, we need to protect the fetus as a human and make a criminal of the mother who harmed it" is only a valid response if you're also anti-abortion.
But then again, plenty of states have laws creating charges for harm or death of a viable fetus from injuring/assaulting/killing the mother...
Then again again, throwing her in prison doesn't help anyone... mandatory AA classes and community service sound okay?

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