Quote from: Madman Mordo on October 06, 2015, 02:52:43 AM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on October 06, 2015, 02:51:25 AM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on October 06, 2015, 02:48:27 AM

>systematically raped and slaughtered multiple Jewish communities as soon as they got to Germany that conveniently happened to be wealthy
>"muh faith"

What does killing Jews in Germany have to do with the Crusades? I don't get what you're referencing.

Of course, Jews have not traditionally fared well in Europe.

Rhineland Massacres. It was literally the first thing the Christian peasants did when the Pope called for a crusade.

Yep, that sounds pretty much exactly like something Medieval Europeans would do to religious minorities.

This shit seems like it had a weird way of happening every time something notable happened. Like Europeans just get all massacre-y when they're excited.

Should note this was mostly just Yuropeasants being retarded, not the Church (for fucking once). Rome condemned it, for what little that's worth.

This doesn't really have much to do with the crusade itself though, these dumbasses weren't even attacking the enemy.

Jews were considered just as much as enemies as the Muslims were, though. Anti Semitic values were rampant despite what the Catholic Church would have told you at the time.

It's a notable example of how the Crusades were never intended to be this glorious moral obligation of Christian values seeking to hound out the Islamic conquest of Europe. That was a secondary objective. The primary goal was the unification of the Catholic Church for the Pope. Serfs and peasants were in it for the money and women. Bishops were in it for the acquisition of power. It had very little, if anything, to do with liberating Europe from Islam, at least initially.

I know this brah. The European peasants were not the brightest bunch. That doesn't change the fact that the purpose of the crusades were to return control of previously Christian lands to Christendom.

Again, secondary objective. The overall long term goal of Pope Urban was to unify Eastern and Western Christianity under his leadership. Liberating access to the Holy Land was ideal for him, but not necessary.

This was the actual goal of the crusade.

The immediate goal perhaps. Certainly not the long range objective.

Primary, actually.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_OSJIyW7q2MC&pg=PA103&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

In 1054 the Church in the East and The West had separated. There was a theological issue involved. Did the Holy Spirit proceed from both The Father and The Son, or only from The Father?

The Crusades began in 1096 when Alexis I, emperor of the Eastern Empire in Constantinople requested help from Pope Urban II to come to his aid in the struggle against the Turks. The Pope hoped that if the crusaders aided the Eastern Church by defeating the Turks, the Church would be reunited under his leadership.

Oh so I guess it was secondary after all.

There is only one Holy Catholic Church, brah, and it isn't the one led by a pope.

I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean. The Catholic Church was lead by Pope Urban during 1096 who wanted a unification of the Orthodox and Catholic Churches under his rule. Fending off Islamic armies to placate Alexis into unification was his end goal. Liberation would've been a nice afterthought to him, but it wasn't especially relevant to his cause.

Not entirely sure what revisionist history you've been looking into tbh.

I have no doubt that the Pope intended these lands to be dominated by Catholicism- he did send a Catholic army. But to write it all off as some kind of catholic power grab is silly.

Because it was a Catholic power grab.

lol. Think you've got it mixed up. Peasants were in it because the poor and stupid are extremely susceptible to violent religious movements. Same reason teenagers go Jihadi.

Oh right, so that's why they conveniently targeted wealthy Jews during their attempted religious 'liberation?'

It was about liberating the Mediterranean from Islam, first and foremost. Later on was when things got really shady.

I'm not sure how many times I have to go over this. Islam was a concern to Emperor Alexis, not to Urban.

I don't think it's all protected under the veil of presentism.

Quote from: DAS r00d d00d B00T on October 06, 2015, 07:04:20 AM

The Islamic incursion had to be stopped.
The world would be a much better place if we could have saved Christian Byzantium.

Ironic that those very people are the ones that destroyed the Eastern Romans sooner and left them open to the Turks.

I blame the Bulgarians for that.

tfw know literally nothing about the Crusades