http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch

The problem with the Big Crunch idea is that it forms an infinite regression. It has to acknowledge a start-point, because if not then there would be an infinite amount of time prior to our being here--which would necessitate our not being here.

It's certainly an interesting hypothesis, though.

The starting point isn't the Big Bang?

Yes, but the Big Crunch proffers an infinite cycle of bangs and crunches. It doesn't recognise a start-point at all to my knowledge.

Quote from: Septy on January 12, 2015, 02:32:52 PM

The starting point isn't the Big Bang?

Yes, but the Big Crunch proffers an infinite cycle of bangs and crunches. It doesn't recognise a start-point at all to my knowledge.

What if there never was a starting point

Personally, I really like the string theory.

But I don't rule out the possible presence of a deity.

I'm not smart enough to debate this

If there is an infinite amount of time prior to us being here, there's no way for us to be here because that infinite amount of time, by definition, couldn't have passed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch

I don't think that's the widely excepted view anymore, given that they've found the doppler shift and are seeing everything expanding away faster and faster. I believe a Big Freeze is more anticipated than a Big Crunch.

And something else I'd like to point out. We don't know if there's actually other universes out there. The only thing we know for certain is that our universe exists. But what's outside of that? Where, in the black void of nothing did our universe come from?

I'd wager most people like to call it nothing. Outside the boundries of our universe, there is nothing. But. It is not absolute nothing. There is no such thing, as absolute nothing. Because if absolute nothing existed, then it would be the dominant, all consuming force.

The fact that our universe exists in any capacity proves that absolute nothing can't exist. Because if you count our universe as a bubble of sorts, then in the void of "absolute nothing," there's an anomaly. And that anomaly, the fact that it's an anomaly, is something.

So, in essence, from another point of view, you could almost view absolute nothing as perfection. And it's a theory that scientists have had for a long time now.

In the early stages of our universe, scientists believe, or believed that the forces we categorize around us today existed in another state. Gravity, electromagnetism, and the strong and weak nuclear forces existed in a functioning model all together. But as our universe aged, this model broke down and we were left with what we have today.

So what's outside of our universe? Certainly not absolute nothing. It may be a dark void devoid of anything functioning in our universe. But it can't be absolute nothing because absolute nothing no longer exists.

Quote from: Meta Cognition on January 12, 2015, 02:49:42 PM

Quote from: Septy on January 12, 2015, 02:46:28 PM

I'm not smart enough to debate this

If there is an infinite amount of time prior to us being here, there's no way for us to be here because that infinite amount of time, by definition, couldn't have passed.

Yes. But what if you introduce entropy into the equation? What if the respective bubbles(universes) are pockets of imperfection? So because of that entropy, because of the fact that our universe exists as a sliver of imperfection, time can, by our viewpoints pass because in this bubble things are warped.

What are you talking about?

I'm saying if there is an infinite amount of time prior to us being here,  we would not yet be here--that's all I'm saying.

Obviously

Quote from: Meta Cognition on January 15, 2015, 09:49:14 AM

Quote from: Camnator on January 15, 2015, 05:35:29 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on January 12, 2015, 02:49:42 PM

Quote from: Septy on January 12, 2015, 02:46:28 PM

I'm not smart enough to debate this

If there is an infinite amount of time prior to us being here, there's no way for us to be here because that infinite amount of time, by definition, couldn't have passed.

Why do you assume we couldn't be here?

I'm not assuming. If there is an infinite amount of time before the occurrence of something, that something cannot occur because the time logically couldn't have passed yet--and it never would pass.

That is an assumption, though. What makes you think this just isn't our time to be here? We're pretty close to killing ourselves off and them we will be just another blip in the universe.

Time changes on perception, so if there was an infinite amount of time before us, we wouldn't exist right now because that infinite amount of time could not have passed (bear with me, time is an incredibly complex thing).

For example, heat death is the demise the universe will most likely meet predicting the current shape of the universe (flat). Before this final energy state is reached, the only things left (as everything else will have decayed or have been destroyed by quantum tunneling) in the universe will be supermassive black holes. These eventually evaporate, as they emit Hawking radiation. The deaths of these black holes will take an immense amount of time, but because they are the only objects left in the universe, this immense amount of time will happen instantaneously.

Quote from: Numb Digger on January 15, 2015, 05:38:43 PM

Quote from: Camnator on January 15, 2015, 04:53:14 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on January 15, 2015, 09:49:14 AM

Quote from: Camnator on January 15, 2015, 05:35:29 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on January 12, 2015, 02:49:42 PM

Quote from: Septy on January 12, 2015, 02:46:28 PM

I'm not smart enough to debate this

If there is an infinite amount of time prior to us being here, there's no way for us to be here because that infinite amount of time, by definition, couldn't have passed.

Why do you assume we couldn't be here?

I'm not assuming. If there is an infinite amount of time before the occurrence of something, that something cannot occur because the time logically couldn't have passed yet--and it never would pass.

That is an assumption, though. What makes you think this just isn't our time to be here? We're pretty close to killing ourselves off and them we will be just another blip in the universe.

Time changes on perception, so if there was an infinite amount of time before us, we wouldn't exist right now because that infinite amount of time could not have passed (bear with me, time is an incredibly complex thing).

For example, heat death is the demise the universe will most likely meet predicting the current shape of the universe (flat). Before this final energy state is reached, the only things left (as everything else will have decayed or have been destroyed by quantum tunneling) in the universe will be supermassive black holes. These eventually evaporate, as they emit Hawking radiation. The deaths of these black holes will take an immense amount of time, but because they are the only objects left in the universe, this immense amount of time will happen instantaneously.

If time is infinite, though, that doesn't negate the opportunity for us to be apart of it. Time is definitely a complex subject, and many don't even believe it exists at all. It's definitely not linear as we perceive it.

Agreed, its definitely nowhere near as linear as we perceive it.

Maybe an infinite amount of time has passed, but we just can't tell because we don't know how it properly works. Ugh, it's so confusing thinking about it.

Quote from: Sandtrap on January 14, 2015, 07:32:22 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on January 12, 2015, 02:49:42 PM

Quote from: Septy on January 12, 2015, 02:46:28 PM

I'm not smart enough to debate this

If there is an infinite amount of time prior to us being here, there's no way for us to be here because that infinite amount of time, by definition, couldn't have passed.

Yes. But what if you introduce entropy into the equation? What if the respective bubbles(universes) are pockets of imperfection? So because of that entropy, because of the fact that our universe exists as a sliver of imperfection, time can, by our viewpoints pass because in this bubble things are warped.

What are you talking about?

I'm saying if there is an infinite amount of time prior to us being here,  we would not yet be here--that's all I'm saying.

You see my talk about absolute nothing not existing? It applies to infinite time as well. The fact that we, and our universe exists means that the concept of infinite time is no longer possible.

Because as you said, if there was infinite time, then we wouldn't be here. So, like absolute nothing, in fact, you could conisder absolute nothing as infinite time as well, before our universe showed up, everything existed in this perfect, function state of absolute nothing or infinite time if you want to call it that.

And then boom. We show up like a crack in a windshield. That crack spreads over time rendering your perfect windshield inoperable and unsustainable. Your perfect windshield is no longer perfect.

As a general rule though I place very little to no stock in intuitive arguments about what is likely the most unique instant in all of space and time, so you can feel free to just dismiss anything I say about it really

This is why science isn't based on philosophical rhetoric