♥ stephen fry

wasn't he supposed to have a debate with russell brand over this very subject

Oh man, this video is amazing. Not because it's poignant or intelligent, but because it highlights how absolutely delusional and self-righteous people can get over this subject and feel perfectly justified.

gODs not real

it doesn't take a genius to come up with an answer like that. I think it's only really an intelligent answer if you're ignoring the whole point that you have eternity verses 80 years on earth. Couldn't someone say that great things do come out of suffering? If hypothetically, someone were to suffer horribly but still display tremendous faith in God, it would inspire others to follow God. In the past that's brought thousands to Christianity. When people see hope and life in the face of death and suffering it tends to bring people to God. Well then you might say, "omg gods a cunt. He curses people as a small price to bring others to him". A according to the old book, humanity cursed itself so really he's just putting us in the right places to make the best out of it. Also when you put it in perspective 80 years of occasional discomfort vs an eternity of hell or heaven depending on what we want, his answer seems childish in my opinion. Kinda what I'm thinking when people say what the dude in the video says.

it doesn't take a genius to come up with an answer like that. I think it's only really an intelligent answer if you're ignoring the whole point that you have eternity verses 80 years on earth. Couldn't someone say that great things do come out of suffering? If hypothetically, someone were to suffer horribly but still display tremendous faith in God, it would inspire others to follow God. In the past that's brought thousands to Christianity. When people see hope and life in the face of death and suffering it tends to bring people to God. Well then you might say, "omg gods a cunt. He curses people as a small price to bring others to him". A according to the old book, humanity cursed itself so really he's just putting us in the right places to make the best out of it. Also when you put it in perspective 80 years of occasional discomfort vs an eternity of hell or heaven depending on what we want, his answer seems childish in my opinion. Kinda what I'm thinking when people say what the dude in the video says.

this is delusional thinking. there is nothing good that comes out of the horrors of this world. we live, we suffer, and we die, and the universe wont bat an eye. there is no positive egalitarian treatment from god. we all suffer, and thats the only gift he gives to all people. people like donald sterling live their entire lives in luxury despite being absolutely horrid. good people starve to death for no fucking reason every day. good people are kidnapped and tortured every day. horrible old men to things to young girls and boys that never should be spoken of, and governments cover it up (jimmy saville & his conspirators). over 200,000 people died in hiroshima and nagasaki, most of them civilians- tell me, what good does war beget? what good comes from that suffering? there is none. this world is a hollow joke. the christian god is a hypocrite and does not deserve our praise.

Quote from: Lemön | Nob Gobbler on April 18, 2015, 12:58:14 PM

He's absolutely right.
If God is real, then he's a complete and utter cunt.

your fedora is showing

*tips*

Quote from: Raw Sugar on April 18, 2015, 12:50:10 PM

it doesn't take a genius to come up with an answer like that. I think it's only really an intelligent answer if you're ignoring the whole point that you have eternity verses 80 years on earth. Couldn't someone say that great things do come out of suffering? If hypothetically, someone were to suffer horribly but still display tremendous faith in God, it would inspire others to follow God. In the past that's brought thousands to Christianity. When people see hope and life in the face of death and suffering it tends to bring people to God. Well then you might say, "omg gods a cunt. He curses people as a small price to bring others to him". A according to the old book, humanity cursed itself so really he's just putting us in the right places to make the best out of it. Also when you put it in perspective 80 years of occasional discomfort vs an eternity of hell or heaven depending on what we want, his answer seems childish in my opinion. Kinda what I'm thinking when people say what the dude in the video says.

this is delusional thinking. there is nothing good that comes out of the horrors of this world. we live, we suffer, and we die, and the universe wont bat an eye. there is no positive egalitarian treatment from god. we all suffer, and thats the only gift he gives to all people. people like donald sterling live their entire lives in luxury despite being absolutely horrid. good people starve to death for no fucking reason every day. good people are kidnapped and tortured every day. horrible old men to things to young girls and boys that never should be spoken of, and governments cover it up (jimmy saville & his conspirators). over 200,000 people died in hiroshima and nagasaki, most of them civilians- tell me, what good does war beget? what good comes from that suffering? there is none. this world is a hollow joke. the christian god is a hypocrite and does not deserve our praise.

I'd just like to state, that from the standpoint of the universe. There is no good. There is no evil.

The only reason we classify anything as good or bad is because of our sense of morality and the environment we were raised in. But from a universal standpoint, there's no good, no bad. Only action and reaction.

For example. Use your own life as an example. If you didn't go through every bad day, every shitty, terrible thing that you did, you wouldn't be the person you are today. Now, let's say something that's arguably "good" happens to you.

Something that's incredible to you that you'll treasure as long as you're alive. In order to reach that point, all those bad things, previously, had to happen in order for you to reach it. I'm not saying that it's justification for hiroshima and nagasaki and all the terrible things people do. But on a fundamental level, without morality, it's always cause and effect.

Life isn't fair. But it isn't cruel. You are dealt your cards and then you choose to play your hand. Your choices and experiences will in turn affect you, how you affect other people, and in turn, over the course of time, end up playing a role in the future, so long as our species still exists.

It's like ripples, essentially. But they aren't opposite sides. They just are. There's no particular bad side, or good side.

"Good" things can come from "bad" things, and vice versa. What did hiroshima and nagasaki teach people?

Don't push the button that fires the nukes.

Objectively, you could say that's a good thing right?

Quote from: Raw Sugar on April 18, 2015, 12:50:10 PM

Couldn't someone say that great things do come out of suffering?

Well, this is obviously the case.

The suffering of 107 billion humans before us is clearly outweighed by the long-term benefits!

totes

Quote from: Raw Sugar on April 18, 2015, 12:50:10 PM

it doesn't take a genius to come up with an answer like that. I think it's only really an intelligent answer if you're ignoring the whole point that you have eternity verses 80 years on earth. Couldn't someone say that great things do come out of suffering? If hypothetically, someone were to suffer horribly but still display tremendous faith in God, it would inspire others to follow God. In the past that's brought thousands to Christianity. When people see hope and life in the face of death and suffering it tends to bring people to God. Well then you might say, "omg gods a cunt. He curses people as a small price to bring others to him". A according to the old book, humanity cursed itself so really he's just putting us in the right places to make the best out of it. Also when you put it in perspective 80 years of occasional discomfort vs an eternity of hell or heaven depending on what we want, his answer seems childish in my opinion. Kinda what I'm thinking when people say what the dude in the video says.

we live, we suffer, and we die, and the universe wont bat an eye. there is no positive egalitarian treatment from god.

we all suffer, and thats the only gift he gives to all people.

This literally makes no sense. You basically implied there isn't a god and then went on to say that all God does is give people pain.

This flawed thinking and you're speaking with your emotions. So is the guy in the video and so are a lot of the people in this thread. When you speak emotionally you come off sounding childish and no offence, whiny. Either there is no God and all of this happens because it just does. Or there is a God and there is suffering because of the benefits that come out of it. There will always be something good that comes out of suffering even if you don't see it. Always. Most people don't see it because they're too busy wallowing in their own sorrow. Pro tip, that's selfish behaviour so if you want to think like a Christian and understand why they think the way they do then you're going to have to look at things differently. If we stop focusing on ourselves then suffering takes on a different meaning. We can use our own suffering to reach out to others. It can be our motivation and drive to do good in this world.

Quote from: Azumarill on April 18, 2015, 01:29:36 PM

Quote from: Raw Sugar on April 18, 2015, 12:50:10 PM

it doesn't take a genius to come up with an answer like that. I think it's only really an intelligent answer if you're ignoring the whole point that you have eternity verses 80 years on earth. Couldn't someone say that great things do come out of suffering? If hypothetically, someone were to suffer horribly but still display tremendous faith in God, it would inspire others to follow God. In the past that's brought thousands to Christianity. When people see hope and life in the face of death and suffering it tends to bring people to God. Well then you might say, "omg gods a cunt. He curses people as a small price to bring others to him". A according to the old book, humanity cursed itself so really he's just putting us in the right places to make the best out of it. Also when you put it in perspective 80 years of occasional discomfort vs an eternity of hell or heaven depending on what we want, his answer seems childish in my opinion. Kinda what I'm thinking when people say what the dude in the video says.

we live, we suffer, and we die, and the universe wont bat an eye. there is no positive egalitarian treatment from god.

we all suffer, and thats the only gift he gives to all people.

This literally makes no sense. You basically implied there isn't a god and then went on to say that all God does is give people pain.

This flawed thinking and you're speaking with your emotions. So is the guy in the video and so are a lot of the people in this thread. When you speak emotionally you come off sounding childish and no offence, whiny. Either there is no God and all of this happens because it just does. Or there is a God and there is suffering because of the benefits that come out of it. There will always be something good that comes out of suffering even if you don't see it. Always. Most people don't see it because they're too busy wallowing in their own sorrow. Pro tip, that's selfish behaviour so if you want to think like a Christian and understand why they think the way they do then you're going to have to look at things differently. If we stop focusing on ourselves then suffering takes on a different meaning. We can use our own suffering to reach out to others. It can be our motivation and drive to do good in this world.

of course there isnt a god. i was trying to make a point about the contradictory and illogical nature of the christian god

Quote from: Azumarill on April 19, 2015, 12:12:48 AM

Quote from: Raw Sugar on April 18, 2015, 11:49:45 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on April 18, 2015, 01:29:36 PM

Quote from: Raw Sugar on April 18, 2015, 12:50:10 PM

it doesn't take a genius to come up with an answer like that. I think it's only really an intelligent answer if you're ignoring the whole point that you have eternity verses 80 years on earth. Couldn't someone say that great things do come out of suffering? If hypothetically, someone were to suffer horribly but still display tremendous faith in God, it would inspire others to follow God. In the past that's brought thousands to Christianity. When people see hope and life in the face of death and suffering it tends to bring people to God. Well then you might say, "omg gods a cunt. He curses people as a small price to bring others to him". A according to the old book, humanity cursed itself so really he's just putting us in the right places to make the best out of it. Also when you put it in perspective 80 years of occasional discomfort vs an eternity of hell or heaven depending on what we want, his answer seems childish in my opinion. Kinda what I'm thinking when people say what the dude in the video says.

we live, we suffer, and we die, and the universe wont bat an eye. there is no positive egalitarian treatment from god.

we all suffer, and thats the only gift he gives to all people.

This literally makes no sense. You basically implied there isn't a god and then went on to say that all God does is give people pain.

This flawed thinking and you're speaking with your emotions. So is the guy in the video and so are a lot of the people in this thread. When you speak emotionally you come off sounding childish and no offence, whiny. Either there is no God and all of this happens because it just does. Or there is a God and there is suffering because of the benefits that come out of it. There will always be something good that comes out of suffering even if you don't see it. Always. Most people don't see it because they're too busy wallowing in their own sorrow. Pro tip, that's selfish behaviour so if you want to think like a Christian and understand why they think the way they do then you're going to have to look at things differently. If we stop focusing on ourselves then suffering takes on a different meaning. We can use our own suffering to reach out to others. It can be our motivation and drive to do good in this world.

of course there isnt a god. i was trying to make a point about the contradictory and illogical nature of the christian god

its contradictory and illogical if you approach it with the mind set of a non believer. But when your brain is in Christian mode, it makes perfect sense. That's why I don't take religious debates seriously. You can rationalize both sides and people do. So why even bother wasting your time on someone else? You'll just get frustrated and hate them more and I don't want that kind of bad energy.

I wouldn't say that being a Christian makes God make perfect sense. You're not supposed to understand him. That's why they say he works in "mysterious ways". Even if you disagree with his methods you're supposed to trust that whatever he does is for the better and will all pan out in a way that you cannot possibly understand. That's what being a Christian is all about. Our morals and logic wouldn't stand for much against a supreme being such as God, so acting like we are the moral authority compared to him wouldn't fare well for us when standing before him like the man in the video says he would. I for on prefer a batshit crazy God. It could be worse, but we don't know because we can't comprehend a drastically different creation.

Quote from: Raw Sugar on April 19, 2015, 12:18:26 AM

Quote from: Azumarill on April 19, 2015, 12:12:48 AM

Quote from: Raw Sugar on April 18, 2015, 11:49:45 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on April 18, 2015, 01:29:36 PM

Quote from: Raw Sugar on April 18, 2015, 12:50:10 PM

it doesn't take a genius to come up with an answer like that. I think it's only really an intelligent answer if you're ignoring the whole point that you have eternity verses 80 years on earth. Couldn't someone say that great things do come out of suffering? If hypothetically, someone were to suffer horribly but still display tremendous faith in God, it would inspire others to follow God. In the past that's brought thousands to Christianity. When people see hope and life in the face of death and suffering it tends to bring people to God. Well then you might say, "omg gods a cunt. He curses people as a small price to bring others to him". A according to the old book, humanity cursed itself so really he's just putting us in the right places to make the best out of it. Also when you put it in perspective 80 years of occasional discomfort vs an eternity of hell or heaven depending on what we want, his answer seems childish in my opinion. Kinda what I'm thinking when people say what the dude in the video says.

we live, we suffer, and we die, and the universe wont bat an eye. there is no positive egalitarian treatment from god.

we all suffer, and thats the only gift he gives to all people.

This literally makes no sense. You basically implied there isn't a god and then went on to say that all God does is give people pain.

This flawed thinking and you're speaking with your emotions. So is the guy in the video and so are a lot of the people in this thread. When you speak emotionally you come off sounding childish and no offence, whiny. Either there is no God and all of this happens because it just does. Or there is a God and there is suffering because of the benefits that come out of it. There will always be something good that comes out of suffering even if you don't see it. Always. Most people don't see it because they're too busy wallowing in their own sorrow. Pro tip, that's selfish behaviour so if you want to think like a Christian and understand why they think the way they do then you're going to have to look at things differently. If we stop focusing on ourselves then suffering takes on a different meaning. We can use our own suffering to reach out to others. It can be our motivation and drive to do good in this world.

of course there isnt a god. i was trying to make a point about the contradictory and illogical nature of the christian god

its contradictory and illogical if you approach it with the mind set of a non believer. But when your brain is in Christian mode, it makes perfect sense. That's why I don't take religious debates seriously. You can rationalize both sides and people do. So why even bother wasting your time on someone else? You'll just get frustrated and hate them more and I don't want that kind of bad energy.

I wouldn't say that being a Christian makes God make perfect sense. You're not supposed to understand him. That's why they say he works in "mysterious ways". Even if you disagree with his methods you're supposed to trust that whatever he does is for the better and will all pan out in a way that you cannot possibly understand. That's what being a Christian is all about. Our morals and logic wouldn't stand for much against a supreme being such as God, so acting like we are the moral authority compared to him wouldn't fare well for us when standing before him like the man in the video says he would. I for on prefer a batshit crazy God. It could be worse, but we don't know because we can't comprehend a drastically different creation.

true yeah. But I'm just saying if every thing always works for his glory then that means good comes out of the bad and suffering. I didn't come to that understanding by myself btw. I've heard what other holy people had to say on suffering and it makes sense you know. Personally I feel like religion and faith depends a lot on your out look in life. You have to be a hopeful and optimistic and trusting if it's going to work for you. If you're cynical and doubtful about it then it'll fail and you'll tell everyone else it doesn't work. It's the same principle for like everything else in life.

Loved it.

*Cringes*

Besides, God knows everything, we don't.

Odin > All other deities