SQS: Once lost, can trust ever be fully regained?

Verbatim · October 18, 2015, 02:15:21 AM

Simple Question Sunday.

They say that once you lose trust in someone, it can never be fully regained, because once you lie, you have revealed yourself to be an untrustworthy person to a degree. Is this reasonable? Would it be pragmatic and ethical for us to assume good faith in all people to the best of our ability, or is it foolish to even consider the possibility of trusting someone who has once lied? Is trust of any value, or is it built upon blind faith and irrationalities?

Perhaps the assumption that we can trust people 100% on the basis that they have never lied to us before is fundamentally flawed in the first place. Or perhaps being so skeptical of people's integrity is detrimental to our social welfare.

Thoughts?

Cadenza has moved on · October 18, 2015, 02:43:32 AM

The only way I would be able to trust someone again after loosing that trust is if they had become such a significantly different person over the course of a few years that they are effectively a different person, and even then I'd still feel apprehensive about it. So I'd say no, if you're going to interact with people you should know what's at risk, if you fail to live up to that trust either through incompetence or deliberate actions, that's on you and you just have to live with it.

Mr. Psychologist · October 18, 2015, 02:52:42 AM

Considering that everyone lies, without fail every day of their lives to some extent, I'd try not to be too judgemental over someone breaching trust.

Really it's not that they lied to you, it's that you found out they lied to you. That's where the disgruntled feeling tends to settle in, what you don't know doesn't harm you and all that. (Generally speaking of course)

Mind you, if you said something to someone in confidence and they ran to the papers with it I doubt there is anything in the world that could rebuild that trust.

challengerX · October 18, 2015, 06:38:41 AM

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Winy · October 18, 2015, 08:37:12 AM

Absolutely, it's just hard to gauge whether or not someone has moved on from being prone to lying. Or not even that, because I guess that assumed we're talking about a lying-prone person to begin with. If we mean just generally, then everybody lies here and there, and I don't think that makes people untrustworthy (At least, not a lot). I'm surprised at the amount of people so far saying that trust can't be earned back so far. I have to ask- Why? I can understand being suspicious of what people say, but to say they can't earn your trust back?

eggsalad · October 18, 2015, 09:51:04 AM

If you really wanna see if someone's changed just look at their credit score.

Braixen · October 18, 2015, 01:17:13 PM

It can. I think it just depends on the person metamorphosizing into a whole new person. It also also requires the trustee to realize the other has changed for the better.

Verbatim · October 18, 2015, 01:22:05 PM

I appreciate that there always seems to be a divide between votes whenever I post SQSs.

Makes me feel like I'm asking good questions.

Sandtrap · October 18, 2015, 02:25:14 PM

I always liked to look at the issue of trust this way. One chance.

Everybody makes mistakes. But trust is the most important thing, not to make a mistake with. And I'm not talking about the kind of trust over small little things, like somebody not saying something or small lies here and there. I'm talking the big kind of trust that has the potential to effect you in a big way.

Anybody who makes a big mistake around me, or, to me, will forever lose my trust. Because this comes down to simple math. If somebody was going to abuse my trust, after all of the things I can do for them, or have done, then what's to stop them from doing it a second time?

If I had no sense of value to them the first time, why would I gain more the second time around?

So, no. Once trust is fully lost, it never would be recovered. And, it never should be.

Elai · October 18, 2015, 03:06:57 PM

No, not 100%.

Thun · October 18, 2015, 03:09:01 PM

No, I don't think so. Not to the same extent anyway. I think it would be naive to fully trust anyone in the first place. Of course I'm just pessimistic.

Epsira · October 18, 2015, 03:20:30 PM

I don't really trust other people to begin with, but there's still something to lose.
Even people who care (ambiguous term imo) like family or friends can try to influence choices that don't ultimately benefit you.
Once someone proves to be insidious or threatening in some capacity I consciously acknowledge and process them with that in mind, so they lose another "tier" of trust. Maybe you could say I have very low trust in people to begin with, and they permanently lose degrees of trust every time they make me regard them as insidious or threatening.

Mad Max · October 19, 2015, 12:43:21 AM

🍁 Aria 🔮 · October 19, 2015, 12:47:23 AM

Never for the same situation. If I tell a friend something in confidence and they tell everyone about it, I will never trust that person with secrets again. Ever.

Desty · October 19, 2015, 02:49:15 AM

Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 19, 2015, 12:47:23 AM

Never for the same situation. If I tell a friend something in confidence and they tell everyone about it, I will never trust that person with secrets again. Ever.

Ever? that's a bit redundant, so are you A) imagining up a scenario in your head, or
B) Remembering an event in your life where something like this has happened?

🍁 Aria 🔮 · October 19, 2015, 08:49:43 AM

Quote from: Desty on October 19, 2015, 02:49:15 AM

Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 19, 2015, 12:47:23 AM
Never for the same situation. If I tell a friend something in confidence and they tell everyone about it, I will never trust that person with secrets again. Ever.
Ever? that's a bit redundant, so are you A) imagining up a scenario in your head, or
B) Remembering an event in your life where something like this has happened?

Redundant? "Never ever" is not an uncommon choice to use in combination.

And it's B, but does that really matter?

Doctor Doom · October 19, 2015, 09:16:43 AM

Nope. Trust is the belief that somebody wouldn't lie to, steal from, or generally mislead you. If they've done anything like that even once, then why would you believe that they wouldn't do it again?

Verbatim · October 19, 2015, 09:25:17 AM

Quote from: Spooky Scary Grunt on October 19, 2015, 09:16:43 AM

Nope. Trust is the belief that somebody wouldn't lie to, steal from, or generally mislead you. If they've done anything like that even once, then why would you believe that they wouldn't do it again?

Why stop at just once? Why trust anybody, even if they haven't deceived you before?

🍁 Aria 🔮 · October 19, 2015, 09:59:28 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 19, 2015, 09:25:17 AM

Quote from: Spooky Scary Grunt on October 19, 2015, 09:16:43 AM
Nope. Trust is the belief that somebody wouldn't lie to, steal from, or generally mislead you. If they've done anything like that even once, then why would you believe that they wouldn't do it again?
Why stop at just once? Why trust anybody, even if they haven't deceived you before?

Most people (should) do that. Trust is earned, not assumed.

Verbatim · October 19, 2015, 10:02:50 AM

Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 19, 2015, 09:59:28 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 19, 2015, 09:25:17 AM
Quote from: Spooky Scary Grunt on October 19, 2015, 09:16:43 AM
Nope. Trust is the belief that somebody wouldn't lie to, steal from, or generally mislead you. If they've done anything like that even once, then why would you believe that they wouldn't do it again?
Why stop at just once? Why trust anybody, even if they haven't deceived you before?
Most people (should) do that. Trust is earned, not assumed.

Agreed--just trying to eke some clarity from his position.

Doctor Doom · October 19, 2015, 10:13:40 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 19, 2015, 09:25:17 AM

Quote from: Spooky Scary Grunt on October 19, 2015, 09:16:43 AM
Nope. Trust is the belief that somebody wouldn't lie to, steal from, or generally mislead you. If they've done anything like that even once, then why would you believe that they wouldn't do it again?
Why stop at just once? Why trust anybody, even if they haven't deceived you before?

While trust shouldn't just be assumed, malice shouldn't be either. Benefit of the doubt, and all that.

Desty · October 19, 2015, 01:00:17 PM

Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 19, 2015, 08:49:43 AM

Quote from: Desty on October 19, 2015, 02:49:15 AM
Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 19, 2015, 12:47:23 AM
Never for the same situation. If I tell a friend something in confidence and they tell everyone about it, I will never trust that person with secrets again. Ever.
Ever? that's a bit redundant, so are you A) imagining up a scenario in your head, or
B) Remembering an event in your life where something like this has happened?
Redundant? "Never ever" is not an uncommon choice to use in combination.

And it's B, but does that really matter?

Sure, but it's only catchy because it rhymes. "Again. Ever." Doesn't have a good ring to it, and thus it's easier to spot the discrepancy.

Does it matter? Yes, in two ways. One is that you worded it like that, and I believe that when people show emotions etc they want attention and possibly help. The other way is my "training". If I spot stuff like that I get dopamine for being right, and in turn I become more experienced.

Sandtrap · October 19, 2015, 01:04:10 PM

Oops. I think I lost my trust under the couch. Too lazy to go digging for it.

I'm just gonna go to the store and buy some more trust.

Anybody who said no is now wrong as I will be shilling out the green to regain my lost trust.

CAPITALISM WINS AGAIN

Rinev · October 19, 2015, 05:33:40 PM

I believe so. Maybe not for the majority of people, but I know that it happens with me. One of my flaws I have with myself is that I can be too forgiving/ trusting.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · October 19, 2015, 07:26:26 PM

Quote from: Desty on October 19, 2015, 01:00:17 PM

Sure, but it's only catchy because it rhymes. "Again. Ever." Doesn't have a good ring to it, and thus it's easier to spot the discrepancy.

Does it matter? Yes, in two ways. One is that you worded it like that, and I believe that when people show emotions etc they want attention and possibly help. The other way is my "training". If I spot stuff like that I get dopamine for being right, and in turn I become more experienced.

It's not simple redundancy if it's for effect. And people do use other combinations than "never-ever", because it's not that they rhyme; it's that restating the definitiveness of your position confirms the nature of it.

And that's not true, especially when you're using a specific personal example to explain your point. And that's nice that you want to help people, but it seems more like probing (which isn't fun unless it's asked for).

ExodusMae · October 19, 2015, 11:28:43 PM

I generally have massive trust issues.
Someone special to me did something to completely shatter my trust in them 3 years ago, it has taken me this long to start trusting them again. Sometimes I have days where I don't trust them or I think too much and it really bothers me to the point where I get physically sick, have anxiety attacks and breakdowns.
I'm trying my hardest to have a carefree attitude because it's affecting myself and my health more than the other person and really, there's no point in it. If I find out the trust is broken again I'll have to cut them out of my life. It's hard to pinpoint what irrational part of me is so upset over this still as well as the thought of being lied to again.
I think it's my fear of unrequited love and not being priority. I hate wasting love on people that just use, abuse and throw it away,

Desty · October 20, 2015, 12:41:19 AM

Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 19, 2015, 07:26:26 PM

Quote from: Desty on October 19, 2015, 01:00:17 PM
Sure, but it's only catchy because it rhymes. "Again. Ever." Doesn't have a good ring to it, and thus it's easier to spot the discrepancy.

Does it matter? Yes, in two ways. One is that you worded it like that, and I believe that when people show emotions etc they want attention and possibly help. The other way is my "training". If I spot stuff like that I get dopamine for being right, and in turn I become more experienced.
It's not simple redundancy if it's for effect. And people do use other combinations than "never-ever", because it's not that they rhyme; it's that restating the definitiveness of your position confirms the nature of it.

And that's not true, especially when you're using a specific personal example to explain your point. And that's nice that you want to help people, but it seems more like probing (which isn't fun unless it's asked for).

What? "it's that restating the definitiveness of your position confirms the nature of it". That quote is a fancy way of saying "The extra word backs it up, dawg". Is the extra word really needed to convey your message? No, it adds effect. Why would you want to put emphasis on an emotional point if you just want to convey your message? My guess would be because you're expressing your feelings, and that isn't necessary in this thread. If it were in "Flood", then you'd be fine, but this thread is in Serious, where there's more importance on discussion and such, and you did a good job on that reply, but the "ever" really didn't fit in there.

Use personal experiences all you want, I'd have ignored it normally, but you put emotion into your reply at the end.

I don't like to help people, but I recognize that people want to talk, but other people keep interrupting them, and then when there's a pause, the interrupted person gets to talk, but now the subject has changed direction, and the interrupter wants to bring up other points, but it'd be rude to interrupt the subject. People want to say a lot of things, I don't, and therefore I am a listener. I will not listen to you, but your brain. You would obviously not want me to hear your secrets and past, because that's a weakness, and we don't know each other, so that's asking for defeat. I am however interested in all that which isn't said, because it is you, and not your outer demeanor.

Not sure if that ^ makes any sense

Verbatim · October 20, 2015, 09:55:13 AM

Quote from: Desty on October 20, 2015, 12:41:19 AM

Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 19, 2015, 07:26:26 PM
Quote from: Desty on October 19, 2015, 01:00:17 PM
Sure, but it's only catchy because it rhymes. "Again. Ever." Doesn't have a good ring to it, and thus it's easier to spot the discrepancy.

Does it matter? Yes, in two ways. One is that you worded it like that, and I believe that when people show emotions etc they want attention and possibly help. The other way is my "training". If I spot stuff like that I get dopamine for being right, and in turn I become more experienced.
It's not simple redundancy if it's for effect. And people do use other combinations than "never-ever", because it's not that they rhyme; it's that restating the definitiveness of your position confirms the nature of it.

And that's not true, especially when you're using a specific personal example to explain your point. And that's nice that you want to help people, but it seems more like probing (which isn't fun unless it's asked for).
What? "it's that restating the definitiveness of your position confirms the nature of it". That quote is a fancy way of saying "The extra word backs it up, dawg". Is the extra word really needed to convey your message? No, it adds effect. Why would you want to put emphasis on an emotional point if you just want to convey your message? My guess would be because you're expressing your feelings, and that isn't necessary in this thread. If it were in "Flood", then you'd be fine, but this thread is in Serious, where there's more importance on discussion and such, and you did a good job on that reply, but the "ever" really didn't fit in there.

God. And I thought I was pedantic.

just shut up

MyNameIsCharlie · October 20, 2015, 12:31:08 PM

As someone who has been truly betrayed, I say no. Once trust is lost you can never truly regain it. Not to what you had. Worse, it stays with you. You never fully trust anyone the same way again.

Much of the dialogue I'm reading in here seems to come from people who have only had to trust on a basic and superficial level. Once you trust someone on the deepest level and they betray that trust, you are changed. You can't really go back, either. I'm not calling anyone kid, or even immature. It just takes years to get to that level.

After you build that, it's difficult even imagining you could build that again.

Desty · October 20, 2015, 01:12:10 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 20, 2015, 09:55:13 AM

Quote from: Desty on October 20, 2015, 12:41:19 AM
Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 19, 2015, 07:26:26 PM
Quote from: Desty on October 19, 2015, 01:00:17 PM
Sure, but it's only catchy because it rhymes. "Again. Ever." Doesn't have a good ring to it, and thus it's easier to spot the discrepancy.

Does it matter? Yes, in two ways. One is that you worded it like that, and I believe that when people show emotions etc they want attention and possibly help. The other way is my "training". If I spot stuff like that I get dopamine for being right, and in turn I become more experienced.
It's not simple redundancy if it's for effect. And people do use other combinations than "never-ever", because it's not that they rhyme; it's that restating the definitiveness of your position confirms the nature of it.

And that's not true, especially when you're using a specific personal example to explain your point. And that's nice that you want to help people, but it seems more like probing (which isn't fun unless it's asked for).
What? "it's that restating the definitiveness of your position confirms the nature of it". That quote is a fancy way of saying "The extra word backs it up, dawg". Is the extra word really needed to convey your message? No, it adds effect. Why would you want to put emphasis on an emotional point if you just want to convey your message? My guess would be because you're expressing your feelings, and that isn't necessary in this thread. If it were in "Flood", then you'd be fine, but this thread is in Serious, where there's more importance on discussion and such, and you did a good job on that reply, but the "ever" really didn't fit in there.
God. And I thought I was pedantic.

just shut up

Excuse me?

Poll

Can trust be ever regained?

SQS: Once lost, can trust ever be fully regained?