So Trump is pulling the USA out of the Paris Accords

PSU · June 01, 2017, 05:45:08 PM

Since Icy didn't want to answer this I'll pose the question to everyone.

Was this deal fair for the USA and their taxpayers?

Flee · June 01, 2017, 05:50:50 PM

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Alternative Facts · June 01, 2017, 05:54:37 PM

Quote from: Flee on June 01, 2017, 05:50:50 PM

Quote from: PSU on June 01, 2017, 05:45:08 PM
Was this deal fair for the USA and their taxpayers?
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: fucking yes.

Don't bother. The dude can't even back up his fictitious claims with a shit-tier source.

I'm pretty sure he pulled the data out of his ass.

PSU · June 01, 2017, 05:57:18 PM

Quote from: Alternative Facts on June 01, 2017, 05:54:37 PM

Quote from: Flee on June 01, 2017, 05:50:50 PM
Quote from: PSU on June 01, 2017, 05:45:08 PM
Was this deal fair for the USA and their taxpayers?
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: fucking yes.

Don't bother. The dude can't even back up his fictitious claims with a shit-tier source.

I'm pretty sure he pulled the data out of his ass.

Where's your data to back up that it was a good deal?

Never taken a high level economics course in your life and you're trying to talk to this deal that you've clearly never read to me. Too funny

PSU · June 01, 2017, 05:57:55 PM

Quote from: Flee on June 01, 2017, 05:50:50 PM

Quote from: PSU on June 01, 2017, 05:45:08 PM
Was this deal fair for the USA and their taxpayers?
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: fucking yes.

Short question: how?

Alternative Facts · June 01, 2017, 05:59:00 PM

Keep on trolling dude. I'll sit here and enjoy watching the oompa loompa fail, whine, and fail some more while waiting on you to actually find a source to back up your claim.

PSU · June 01, 2017, 06:02:41 PM

Quote from: Alternative Facts on June 01, 2017, 05:59:00 PM

Keep on trolling dude. I'll sit here and enjoy watching the oompa loompa fail, whine, and fail some more while waiting on you to actually find a source to back up your claim.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself.

Hillary lost. We all told you it would happen. Stop pouting

Genghis Khan · June 01, 2017, 06:04:24 PM

It's a giant hoax. A lot of money are being made when people buy into the crap that humans are changing the climate.

Luciana · June 01, 2017, 06:06:11 PM

Quote from: PSU on June 01, 2017, 06:02:41 PM

Quote from: Alternative Facts on June 01, 2017, 05:59:00 PM
Keep on trolling dude. I'll sit here and enjoy watching the oompa loompa fail, whine, and fail some more while waiting on you to actually find a source to back up your claim.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself.

Hillary lost. We all told you it would happen. Stop pouting

Can you both shut up?

Stop taking pot shots at one another and actually back your positions/claims up with evidence, and refute the others with actual substance.

damn

challengerX · June 01, 2017, 06:09:52 PM

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Alternative Facts · June 01, 2017, 06:29:55 PM

Quote from: Luciana on June 01, 2017, 06:06:11 PM

Quote from: PSU on June 01, 2017, 06:02:41 PM
Quote from: Alternative Facts on June 01, 2017, 05:59:00 PM
Keep on trolling dude. I'll sit here and enjoy watching the oompa loompa fail, whine, and fail some more while waiting on you to actually find a source to back up your claim.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself.

Hillary lost. We all told you it would happen. Stop pouting
Can you both shut up?

Stop taking pot shots at one another and actually back your positions/claims up with evidence, and refute the others with actual substance.

damn

Fair - the only website/outlet that I could find remotely offering opinions close to PSU was National Review, and even that isn't close to the data he's suggesting (20% increase in electricity prices, for example).

Flee · June 01, 2017, 06:30:13 PM

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maverick · June 01, 2017, 08:15:05 PM

Behold. I believe I found the source of PSU's data:

Quote

As a result of the plan, one can expect that by 2035, there will be:

An overall average shortfall of nearly 400,000 jobs;
An average manufacturing shortfall of over 200,000 jobs;
A total income loss of more than $20,000 for a family of four;
An aggregate gross domestic product (GDP) loss of over $2.5 trillion; and
Increases in household electricity expenditures between 13 percent and 20 percent.

http://www.heritage.org/environment/report/consequences-paris-protocol-devastating-economic-costs-essentially-zero

Alternative Facts · June 01, 2017, 08:20:25 PM

The Heritage Foundation?

Yeah, I won't believe that at all

challengerX · June 01, 2017, 08:49:54 PM

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Boomdeyadah · June 01, 2017, 09:54:00 PM

WTF why doesn't american want billions of tax payer dollars to be funnelled to poor countries and lower the global temperature by 0.05% by the year 2100

Luciana · June 01, 2017, 10:34:13 PM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on June 01, 2017, 09:54:00 PM

WTF why doesn't american want billions of tax payer dollars to be funnelled to poor countries and lower the global temperature by 0.05% by the year 2100

It drives me crazy how people talk about climate only in terms of politics/economy etc. It’s about the habitability/safety of the Earth. But if we must...

You do realize every nation can set its own goals, right? It's why you have nations like China and Russia agreeing to such a thing. Though it seems Flee has a better understanding of that bit than I do.

Let that sink in. EU going to China to make deals instead of the United States. That's not good for the United States, because believe it or not that trade helps with jobs over here. The EU's trade with China, Japan, India, Australia, South Korea and Southeast Asia already exceeds its trade with the United States by about $300 billion per year -- and this has occurred before Europe grants China "market economy" status or signs free trade agreements with Japan, India and others. Imagine what happens then.

This is ALSO not taking into account China's new "silk road", which will increase trade between Europe and Asia and keep the US out as it further isolates itself. Europeans were an active presence at Beijing's One Belt, One Road summit. The Belt and Road Initiative is the largest coordinated infrastructure investment program in human history, and could easily generate $2 trillion per year in trade between Europe and Asia.

Meanwhile if we're also taking Iran into account, Europe has universally agreed that a more Western engaged Iran is a good thing. With Rouhani's very solid re-election, it only solidifies that Iranian's want to open up west more. This while having the US do its typical beating of a drum saying Iran is the most evil nation in the world and may impose sanctions on it. Sanctions Europe won't back and possibly continue making business deals with them.

What I'm getting at, is that it is ironic Trump said we're going to make America great again, when in fact he's seeming to do everything in his power to have China step up as the next big leader, while making Europe start to feel as though they need to take the mantel as the center of the world again and be the swing that tips Asian and American powers through trade. That much has been proven with Europe's two strongest nations, Germany and France, unite in even more Franco-Germanic agreements and cooperation and try and lead, because America is seeming to do everything in its power not to.

Truly the Franks were the right ones when resettling from the ashes of Rome. When one great superpower falls, them Franks will always seem to be around to capitalize on it.

Luciana · June 01, 2017, 10:42:38 PM

The next thing I know, I'll be hearing people here saying global warming isn't real because the weather still gets cold or something.

Ian · June 01, 2017, 11:36:05 PM

Well ya know, the polar vortex was a thing. So what if it was 105 in Florida today? Pfffft.

/sarcasm

Quote from: Luciana on June 01, 2017, 10:42:38 PM

The next thing I know, I'll be hearing people here saying global warming isn't real because the weather still gets cold or something.

Nick McIntyre · June 02, 2017, 01:44:57 AM

Lots of businesses are appalled and criticizing this action.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/business-leaders-react-trumps-paris-accord-decision/story?id=47779085

Hell, even Walmart is joining them (and I believe they're pretty big Trump supporters during the campaign.)

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-30/apple-wal-mart-stick-with-climate-pledges-despite-trump-s-pivot

Genghis Khan · June 02, 2017, 02:30:17 AM

Global warming is fake, climate change isn't. Guess what, climate changes even if humans didn't exist.

Boomdeyadah · June 02, 2017, 02:36:00 AM

Quote from: Nick McIntyre on June 02, 2017, 01:44:57 AM

Lots of businesses are appalled and criticizing this action.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/business-leaders-react-trumps-paris-accord-decision/story?id=47779085

Hell, even Walmart is joining them (and I believe they're pretty big Trump supporters during the campaign.)

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-30/apple-wal-mart-stick-with-climate-pledges-despite-trump-s-pivot

Does anyone actually, and unironically, give a shit about big corporations virtue signalling?

Jono · June 02, 2017, 02:38:02 AM

Fuck me man, I went outside today with my dog so he can shit and it was hot as fuck.

God damn you Domaland Driumphfed you could have fixed this.

Genghis Khan · June 02, 2017, 02:40:27 AM

Russia was offered money if they go for this agreement so Putin was like 'why not'. They would have not gone for this otherwise.

Genghis Khan · June 02, 2017, 02:43:17 AM

Quote from: Jono on June 02, 2017, 02:38:02 AM

Fuck me man, I went outside today with my dog so he can shit and it was hot as fuck.

God damn you Domaland Driumphfed you could have fixed this.

How do you explain it was snowing in may in finland which hasn't happened since the ice age.

FatherlyNick - fuck putin · June 02, 2017, 05:23:58 AM

Quote from: PSU on June 01, 2017, 03:05:36 PM

Quote from: Luciana on June 01, 2017, 02:53:47 PM
Quote from: PSU on June 01, 2017, 02:07:11 PM
Quote from: Alternative Facts on June 01, 2017, 01:49:35 PM

Trump continues his failure of a Presidency.

ok
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/private-sector-job-growth-rebounds-to-rip-roaring-pace-in-may-adp-says-2017-06-01
I almost forgot that jobs are more important than the entire climate of the world

my bad, yo

This is also inadvertendly alienating Europe from us and making China take its first step as world leader. GG Trump.

Go read the list of reasons why we (USA) left. And then tell me one that is invalid.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/fact-check-trump-reasons-for-leaving-paris-agreement-2017-6/#just-a-tiny-temperature-increase-2

done.

FatherlyNick - fuck putin · June 02, 2017, 05:26:35 AM

Quote from: Karjala takaisin on June 02, 2017, 02:30:17 AM

Global warming is fake, climate change isn't. Guess what, climate changes even if humans didn't exist.

Yes, its natural. But the rate of change has been accelerated faster than sonic on chaos emeralds. Species around us do not have time to adapt to the changes and die off. Your grandchildren may never see certain fish or mammals.

Super Irish · June 02, 2017, 08:03:11 AM

Quote from: FatherlyNick on June 02, 2017, 05:26:35 AM

Quote from: Karjala takaisin on June 02, 2017, 02:30:17 AM
Global warming is fake, climate change isn't. Guess what, climate changes even if humans didn't exist.
Yes, its natural. But the rate of change has been accelerated faster than sonic on chaos emeralds. Species around us do not have time to adapt to the changes and die off. Your grandchildren may never see certain fish or mammals.

It doesn't even have to be the warming part of CO2 that fucks up the environment.

Carbon gets regulated on Earth in the Carbon Cycle. Long story short, it goes in the atmosphere (naturally via volcanoes or artificially by us), gets absorbed by the ocean, deposits on the seabed and then gets shoved back in the Earth's crust to be eventually erupted again. Now that's all fine when you have steady state (Influx into Earth = Outflux to atmosphere), but when we add to it in such a short space of time when this process takes millions of years, is when we fuck over the system and clog up the processes.

First, we fuck up the atmosphere. Currently we're at [/url=https://www.co2.earth/daily-co2]half the CO2 ppm levels[/url] as the Cretaceous period, back when glaciers were limited to mountains only, sea temperatures were a consistent 42 Celsius (y'know, Hurricane/Tornado/Cyclone weather), and the temperate climates at the Cretaceous Poles (i.e. about halfway up Greenland for comparison). Oh, and the seas were high. But we're nowhere near that, so that's great, right?

Well, we're already fucking up the oceans too. Short of just warming the oceans which kills off corals, there's also the increased acidification as the oceans take in more Carbon, make more acid, etc, etc, which kills off anything that's sensitive to pH, fucks up reactions in the oceans, and generally makes things more shitty.

I put those links up more for general reference rather than straight fact-checking, but the information's all there in journals if you can access them. Throughout my course in Geology, there's always a topic regarding this shit every year, and the data available supports more towards us fucking shit up than not (and in the cases of the opposite being supported, it's down to a reliability issues/lack of data for palaeoclimates).

Ásgeirr · June 02, 2017, 09:29:58 AM

You know even if you dont believe in global warming/climate change, living a less polluted life is better for everyone and everything

Flee · June 02, 2017, 10:22:05 AM

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