I'm a bit confused how you expect companies to compete with sewage and roads. You could use toll roads I suppose.
If there were alternatives to state services I would gladly support a partially voluntary tax or tax on consumption of state services, but I don't see how voluntaryism is feasible currently.
Nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you drive on city-maintained streets or use city-owned sewage systems.
Yeah, that's the point. You're not forced to live here. You're welcome to emigrate somewhere or live in a community outside of state jurisdiction, like a reservation. Hell, go to Germany and get a free college education.
Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on December 31, 2014, 12:30:32 PMYeah, that's the point. You're not forced to live here. You're welcome to emigrate somewhere or live in a community outside of state jurisdiction, like a reservation. Hell, go to Germany and get a free college education. Yes, because emigration is both free and easy.
Quote from: Lemy the Lizerd on December 31, 2014, 01:14:10 PMQuote from: Auld Lang Turkey on December 31, 2014, 12:30:32 PMYeah, that's the point. You're not forced to live here. You're welcome to emigrate somewhere or live in a community outside of state jurisdiction, like a reservation. Hell, go to Germany and get a free college education. Yes, because emigration is both free and easy.I'm not sure why you think this is a justification for refusing to pay taxes.
Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on December 31, 2014, 01:19:48 PMQuote from: Lemy the Lizerd on December 31, 2014, 01:14:10 PMQuote from: Auld Lang Turkey on December 31, 2014, 12:30:32 PMYeah, that's the point. You're not forced to live here. You're welcome to emigrate somewhere or live in a community outside of state jurisdiction, like a reservation. Hell, go to Germany and get a free college education. Yes, because emigration is both free and easy.I'm not sure why you think this is a justification for refusing to pay taxes.I'm saying that saying "you're free to leave" is flat out wrong. Moving to a new home in the same county is expensive. Going to a new country is extremely difficult and expensive. Nobody short of the top end of the middle class is going to be able to leave. I couldn't afford to go to, say, Switzerland if I wanted to, even if they were willing to accept me (I'm not rich so they're not).
Quote from: Lemy the Lizerd on December 31, 2014, 01:38:52 PMQuote from: Auld Lang Turkey on December 31, 2014, 01:19:48 PMQuote from: Lemy the Lizerd on December 31, 2014, 01:14:10 PMQuote from: Auld Lang Turkey on December 31, 2014, 12:30:32 PMYeah, that's the point. You're not forced to live here. You're welcome to emigrate somewhere or live in a community outside of state jurisdiction, like a reservation. Hell, go to Germany and get a free college education. Yes, because emigration is both free and easy.I'm not sure why you think this is a justification for refusing to pay taxes.I'm saying that saying "you're free to leave" is flat out wrong. Moving to a new home in the same county is expensive. Going to a new country is extremely difficult and expensive. Nobody short of the top end of the middle class is going to be able to leave. I couldn't afford to go to, say, Switzerland if I wanted to, even if they were willing to accept me (I'm not rich so they're not).Yep, shit costs money. Welcome to reality. You claim taxation is theft, yet you're the one that wants to be able to use state-provided services without paying for them. That makes you the thief.
Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on December 31, 2014, 01:48:58 PMQuote from: Lemy the Lizerd on December 31, 2014, 01:38:52 PMQuote from: Auld Lang Turkey on December 31, 2014, 01:19:48 PMQuote from: Lemy the Lizerd on December 31, 2014, 01:14:10 PMQuote from: Auld Lang Turkey on December 31, 2014, 12:30:32 PMYeah, that's the point. You're not forced to live here. You're welcome to emigrate somewhere or live in a community outside of state jurisdiction, like a reservation. Hell, go to Germany and get a free college education. Yes, because emigration is both free and easy.I'm not sure why you think this is a justification for refusing to pay taxes.I'm saying that saying "you're free to leave" is flat out wrong. Moving to a new home in the same county is expensive. Going to a new country is extremely difficult and expensive. Nobody short of the top end of the middle class is going to be able to leave. I couldn't afford to go to, say, Switzerland if I wanted to, even if they were willing to accept me (I'm not rich so they're not).Yep, shit costs money. Welcome to reality. You claim taxation is theft, yet you're the one that wants to be able to use state-provided services without paying for them. That makes you the thief.I am in no way suggesting anyone should use those services for free. What I'm saying is that there should be a market, so people have a choice.
Using services provided by the state and refusing to pay for them, regardless of whether an alternative exists, is tantamount to theft.
herp derp ad hominem herp derp
The retort has already been posted. Sorry if you're offended by being called out for spouting a child's view on taxation on a serious discussion board.
Taxes are part of the social contract of being privileged to live in a wealthy first world nation. You have an obligation to contribute to the general welfare of the country proportionally to your ability.
You want alternatives to government services? They exist. Private communities, reservations, and emigration are all options.
Obviously taxation is not theft. I've been robbed before, and I distinctly recall not getting stuff in return like roads, free education, or emergency services.
You may think you're taxed disproportionately, or desire to have services privatized (and subsequently see a decrease in taxes), but you can't with any credibility claim that taxation is theft.
Theft - the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.
QuoteTheft - the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.How the fuck is taxation not theft?
By using government services, regardless of your wish to use someone else's, and not paying the taxes due as proportional payment for them, you're stealing from every other citizen in the country. Your argument is circular, tautological, and self-refuting.
By claiming 'taxation is theft' and going no further in justification than a generic definition is profoundly arrogant.
You can claim that taxation is not right, and that it should be changed; you're welcome to use whatever platform you wish to attempt to convince the rest of society of that. But since the society has agreed to the implementation of taxes as a means of spreading the general welfare, it's simply childish to continue saying it is theft.
The fact is that by living on government-owned land and using government-provided services, you are opting in to the social contract and to taxes.
Any capitalist would recognize this; even in a monopoly, if you use the goods and services of a firm or business, then you owe them a fee, regardless of how reluctant you are to use them. Failure to pay for what you use is theft.
The argument of taxation as theft breaks down as soon as you look outside the individual
(and fundamentally, the argument is purely selfishly motivated and stems from no altruistic goal)
seeing that refusal to pay tax is, in fact, an act of robbery on your own part.
You provide consent by using the services and living in government territory. Like I said, reluctant use is still use. Nobody is going to shoot you for not paying taxes, and to continue to refer to imprisonment as kidnapping is just silly. You're not stupid, so I know you recognize the legality of enforcing law and order. All this keeps coming back to is you saying it's illegal, which is just not true. Wrong? Maybe. Argue that. That's compelling, and I'm inclined to agree that the government should not take much of what it does.
So I'm turning into a voluntaryist
