Total Members Voted: 14
rather than spying on its own citizens.
Privacy is overrated.
Seeing as this bill has never once caught or held up a terrorist act, then yes. I think it needs to end.If it's not doing what it's intended for, it doesn't need to be around.
Quote from: Luciana on May 31, 2015, 11:40:26 AMSeeing as this bill has never once caught or held up a terrorist act, then yes. I think it needs to end.If it's not doing what it's intended for, it doesn't need to be around.Because the NSA is going to release how many terrorists and attacks they've stopped so the terrorists can't catch on to how they're stopping them.I swear it's fucking disgusting just how brain dead the majority of you are, and you can't help just vomiting your uneducated bullshit all over the place.
Quote from: Luciana on May 31, 2015, 11:40:26 AMSeeing as this bill has never once caught or held up a terrorist act, then yes. I think it needs to end.If it's not doing what it's intended for, it doesn't need to be around.Sweet, let's abolish the Constitution since it's clearly failed to do what it intended.The only way you've even managed to justify ending the programme is by taking a very narrow view of its efficacy; I really don't care if Bush ran around promising an end to domestic terrorism. If the programme provides a net benefit to security and intelligence, then it deserves to stay.
Quote from: challengerX on May 31, 2015, 12:01:44 PMQuote from: Luciana on May 31, 2015, 11:40:26 AMSeeing as this bill has never once caught or held up a terrorist act, then yes. I think it needs to end.If it's not doing what it's intended for, it doesn't need to be around.Because the NSA is going to release how many terrorists and attacks they've stopped so the terrorists can't catch on to how they're stopping them.I swear it's fucking disgusting just how brain dead the majority of you are, and you can't help just vomiting your uneducated bullshit all over the place.The irony
But the Constitution protects American's human rights, sooo... kinda a bad example.
Quote from: Luciana on May 31, 2015, 12:43:02 PMBut the Constitution protects American's human rights, sooo... kinda a bad example.It's also supposed to prevent executive over-reach, which has been happening pretty much constantly since FDR.
Fair enough, but many would argue you needed that in wartime.Regardless, it's no secret that if the founding fathers were around, they'd call for revolution.
Quote from: Luciana on May 31, 2015, 12:45:19 PMFair enough, but many would argue you needed that in wartime.Regardless, it's no secret that if the founding fathers were around, they'd call for revolution.Which circles back to my point that things can still be useful even if their intentions are not explicitly fulfilled.
All reports say the same thing.
Quote from: Luciana on May 31, 2015, 12:49:00 PMAll reports say the same thing.That's just false. The collection of metadata is recognised, virtually across the board in the intelligence community, as valuable.
I've seen numerous reports though saying that this bill hasn't even once caught a terrorist act.
Quote from: Luciana on May 31, 2015, 01:01:31 PMI've seen numerous reports though saying that this bill hasn't even once caught a terrorist act.Again, why are you using that narrow metric? That isn't the only thing which defines the efficacy of intelligence, and it's a bad metric nonetheless because there rarely ever is a "smoking-gun" you can point to; intelligence gathering is the tedious construction of numerous matrices, not the hangman's noose for every wrongdoer.
I'm kinda using only that point because that's the NSA's excuse for collecting the data.
Quote from: Luciana on May 31, 2015, 01:05:36 PMI'm kinda using only that point because that's the NSA's excuse for collecting the data.I don't care what the NSA is saying, I care about the actual consequences of the programme--which, again, is almost universally regarded as valuable, even if it's never been the nail in the coffin it was promised to be.
It just feels like government spying for the sake of spying.
Quote from: Luciana on May 31, 2015, 01:27:14 PMIt just feels like government spying for the sake of spying.It's a stretch to call it spying; whitepages.com has more personal information on you, which universal access no less, than the NSA does.
Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 31, 2015, 01:29:40 PMQuote from: Luciana on May 31, 2015, 01:27:14 PMIt just feels like government spying for the sake of spying.It's a stretch to call it spying; whitepages.com has more personal information on you, which universal access no less, than the NSA does.Eh, fair point. I understand where you're coming from, I just... I dunno, I don't exactly think it's morally right.
Quote from: Luciana on May 31, 2015, 01:34:20 PMQuote from: Meta Cognition on May 31, 2015, 01:29:40 PMQuote from: Luciana on May 31, 2015, 01:27:14 PMIt just feels like government spying for the sake of spying.It's a stretch to call it spying; whitepages.com has more personal information on you, which universal access no less, than the NSA does.Eh, fair point. I understand where you're coming from, I just... I dunno, I don't exactly think it's morally right.I can't say I blame you particularly, even if we disagree. The nature and suddenness of Snowden's leaks caused a lot of sociocultural upheaval.
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Should the NSA's collection of metadata be discontinued?