Should police be allowed to kill you if you don't follow directions?

Deleted · January 03, 2018, 07:13:22 PM

Perhaps American police need to be trained to deescalate situations instead of thinking they are staring in some western shootout movie 24/7.

Flee · January 03, 2018, 10:41:56 PM

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challengerX · January 04, 2018, 07:24:58 AM

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Mordo · January 04, 2018, 10:26:13 AM

It wouldn't be as big of an issue if America didn't have such a faggy gun culture.

It's easy to hand-wave American police off as trigger happy retards but if you live in a country where firearms are literally worshipped and the prospect of getting shot by a random citizen is so astronomically high, then it doesn't take a genius to understand why they're always on edge.

Not giving unjustifiable shootings a free pass, but it isn't as black and white as "cops should be taught to stop shooting people."

Azumarill · January 04, 2018, 01:17:59 PM

http://www.okayafrica.com/how-to-abolish-police-prisons/

https://www.feministes-radicales.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Angela-Davis-Are_Prisons_Obsolete.pdf

https://www.thenation.com/article/abolish-police-instead-lets-have-full-social-economic-and-political-equality/

Winy · January 21, 2018, 02:27:09 PM

If someone had a firearm and was commanded to "Drop the weapon," but refused to, then obviously it's a bit more understandable why lethal force could be used as opposed to someone refusing to gesture themselves in some way (Like raising or lowering your hands) when there's no immediate threat that's recognizable. Clearly it's not permissible for an officer to say "Please step out of the vehicle," me saying "No," and then getting filled with lead, no matter how many times I refuse to. But it's all dependent on the context. Sometimes orders are much more pressing and necessary.

January 26, 2018, 12:51:10 PM

Quote

“If you make a mistake, another mistake, there is a very severe possibility that you’re both going to get shot. Do you understand?” Sgt. Charles Langley yells before telling Shaver to “shut up.”

“I’m not here to be tactical and diplomatic with you. You listen. You obey,” the officer says.

"Every day our good officers selflessly put their lives on the line to serve the citizens they represent. If you don't respect them, then you're entitled and ungrateful..."

MarKhan · January 26, 2018, 12:52:46 PM

My police sleeps in another town, so....

Nixeris · February 12, 2018, 09:31:26 PM

I don't think the police should have anywhere near the authority society gives them, the ability to take lives with little to no repercussions. Not to mention the fascistic undertones of the system.

But the shooting of Daniel Shaver made some of my acquaintances preaching the "ACAB" ideology seem like the sane ones for once, better than ignoring the issues and pretending everything is okay at the very least.

Mega Sceptile · February 25, 2018, 11:41:49 PM

I believe that yes, if you play stupid games by dicking around and reaching into your pockets, and you should win an equally stupid prize. It seriously isn't that hard people, just do what the guy with a gun says and don't reach into a pocket like you have a fucking gun in a country where 90% of the population is armed.

keep in mind that these NORMAL people deal with the absolute trash of the population every single day and have to see the worst of every person they meet.
My grandfather, who worked in our local force for 40 years, had to carry out a 2 month old baby who's skull was caved in by it's druggie parents when they were partying, not giving two shits and high out of their minds on coke. they heard the baby's crying for food and thought it was some monster so the mother caved her own child's skill in by throwing it against a wall.

that shit will change you, and that's just one of the situations he had to deal with in his 40 years, there were countless he didn't have the heart to talk about when I asked about it. So, don't be surprised when the cop who has been dealign with that kind of shit for 7 hours pulls the trigger for you reaching for your waistband, after they said to put your hands up, because the other 25 times out of 30 people who they did the same thing to over their service had a gun in their hands, and if they hesitated someone else would've also been in a body bag.

Azumarill · March 01, 2018, 03:31:08 PM

Quote from: Mega Sceptile on February 25, 2018, 11:41:49 PM

I believe that yes, if you play stupid games by dicking around and reaching into your pockets, and you should win an equally stupid prize. It seriously isn't that hard people, just do what the guy with a gun says and don't reach into a pocket like you have a fucking gun in a country where 90% of the population is armed.

keep in mind that these NORMAL people deal with the absolute trash of the population every single day and have to see the worst of every person they meet.
My grandfather, who worked in our local force for 40 years, had to carry out a 2 month old baby who's skull was caved in by it's druggie parents when they were partying, not giving two shits and high out of their minds on coke. they heard the baby's crying for food and thought it was some monster so the mother caved her own child's skill in by throwing it against a wall.

that shit will change you, and that's just one of the situations he had to deal with in his 40 years, there were countless he didn't have the heart to talk about when I asked about it. So, don't be surprised when the cop who has been dealign with that kind of shit for 7 hours pulls the trigger for you reaching for your waistband, after they said to put your hands up, because the other 25 times out of 30 people who they did the same thing to over their service had a gun in their hands, and if they hesitated someone else would've also been in a body bag.

haha yea bang bang dumb loser shouldnt have moved, comply or die amirite

Vegeta Wars · March 27, 2018, 08:18:32 PM

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Vegeta Wars · March 27, 2018, 08:20:11 PM

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Turkey · March 27, 2018, 10:02:28 PM

Quote from: Vegeta Wars on March 27, 2018, 08:20:11 PM

You can only kill a person that is directly threatening the safety and lives of others.

I think it's reasonable to say that for every instance of wrongful killing by a cop, apart from instances of intentional abuse of power, the cops don't intend to simply murder a citizen and act because they feel the individual is a mortal danger to themselves or others.

Vegeta Wars · March 27, 2018, 10:07:38 PM

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🂿 · March 27, 2018, 10:32:58 PM

Only if I pull out or act like I have a gun on me and pretend to pull it out, then they have the right to shoot me dead.

So to an extent. When it comes to the police I would comply. Fight it in court, not in the streets.

Vegeta Wars · March 27, 2018, 10:36:10 PM

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🂿 · March 27, 2018, 10:53:22 PM

Quote from: Vegeta Wars on March 27, 2018, 10:36:10 PM

Quote from: Deci on March 27, 2018, 10:32:58 PM
Only if I pull out or act like I have a gun on me and pretend to pull it out, then they have the right to shoot me dead.

So to an extent. When it comes to the police I would comply. Fight it in court, not in the streets.

Good point about the threatening gesture, which does warrant killing. However, I can not encourage surrendering to corrupt authority members and fighting it in a broken and biased justice system. That judge collects his paycheck from the same source the cop does, theft of citizens. That cop actively steals from citizens on top of that. Sometimes it is better to perish fighting for freedom than to live as a slave.

I guess I'd rather remain a slave. My life isn't worth fighting over money.

DAS B00T x2 · March 27, 2018, 10:57:30 PM

All I'm saying fam, is that if I ain't threatening the livelihood of that cop and he pulls a firearm on me, I should 100% be within my rights to draw my own firearm and pre-emptively kill that cop before he illegally kills me.

Turkey · March 27, 2018, 11:25:41 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on March 27, 2018, 10:57:30 PM

All I'm saying fam, is that if I ain't threatening the livelihood of that cop and he pulls a firearm on me, I should 100% be within my rights to draw my own firearm and pre-emptively kill that cop before he illegally kills me.

You are, but your life is 100% fucked afterwards.

DAS B00T x2 · March 27, 2018, 11:30:21 PM

Quote from: Turkey on March 27, 2018, 11:25:41 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on March 27, 2018, 10:57:30 PM
All I'm saying fam, is that if I ain't threatening the livelihood of that cop and he pulls a firearm on me, I should 100% be within my rights to draw my own firearm and pre-emptively kill that cop before he illegally kills me.

You are, but your life is 100% fucked afterwards.

And that is the injustice in the system that we should be fighting.

Verbatim · March 27, 2018, 11:31:25 PM

and if you do get wrongfully murdered, the cop should be put to death

that's the only appropriate punishment—becoming a police officer should be signing a death warrant should you abuse your power

Vegeta Wars · March 27, 2018, 11:37:02 PM

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Vegeta Wars · March 27, 2018, 11:37:37 PM

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Verbatim · March 27, 2018, 11:39:15 PM

Quote from: Vegeta Wars on March 27, 2018, 11:37:37 PM

Quote from: Shhhhhh on March 27, 2018, 11:31:25 PM
and if you do get wrongfully murdered, the cop should be put to death

that's the only appropriate punishment—becoming a police officer should be signing a death warrant should you abuse your power
Why not life in prison? Seems silly to murder and then claim murder is wrong.

murder isn't wrong

murder for no good reason is wrong

killing someone for having no good reason for murdering is a good reason

DAS B00T x2 · March 27, 2018, 11:42:54 PM

Quote from: Shhhhhh on March 27, 2018, 11:39:15 PM

Quote from: Vegeta Wars on March 27, 2018, 11:37:37 PM
Quote from: Shhhhhh on March 27, 2018, 11:31:25 PM
and if you do get wrongfully murdered, the cop should be put to death

that's the only appropriate punishment—becoming a police officer should be signing a death warrant should you abuse your power
Why not life in prison? Seems silly to murder and then claim murder is wrong.
murder isn't wrong

murder for no good reason is wrong

killing someone for having no good reason for murdering is a good reason

Justifiable taking of a life isn't murder.

Vegeta Wars · March 27, 2018, 11:49:04 PM

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Verbatim · March 27, 2018, 11:51:48 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on March 27, 2018, 11:42:54 PM

Quote from: Shhhhhh on March 27, 2018, 11:39:15 PM
Quote from: Vegeta Wars on March 27, 2018, 11:37:37 PM
Quote from: Shhhhhh on March 27, 2018, 11:31:25 PM
and if you do get wrongfully murdered, the cop should be put to death

that's the only appropriate punishment—becoming a police officer should be signing a death warrant should you abuse your power
Why not life in prison? Seems silly to murder and then claim murder is wrong.
murder isn't wrong

murder for no good reason is wrong

killing someone for having no good reason for murdering is a good reason
Justifiable taking of a life isn't murder.

i'm just playing along with his choice of words, i don't expect him to able to understand that nuance

Verbatim · March 27, 2018, 11:55:07 PM

Quote from: Vegeta Wars on March 27, 2018, 11:49:04 PM

I think it is a bad reason, and we have no authority to murder. Besides, life in prison is a much harsher punishment and they deserve a long life of misery to reflect on what the did.

prisons are relatively comfy and people are highly adaptive—they're very good at convincing themselves that the shit they're swimming in "isn't so bad," because in that scenario, they have no other psychologically rewarding choice

it's also just delaying the inevitable

killing them instantly is just ridding the world of another piece of fucking garbage

the only thing is, it costs more to put someone on death row than it does to keep them in prison, and since that's the only logic-based point you could really bring up, i'm not surprised you failed to do so

Vegeta Wars · March 28, 2018, 12:02:49 AM

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