Should police be allowed to kill you if you don't follow directions?

Turkey · December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM

Piggybacking off the swatting thread, reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them. Maybe some legal experts need to chime in here, but where are the laws saying I need to do what police say, even on my own property, and if I don't I can be justifiably shot?

I completely understand police are charged with giving lawful orders and they have to be obeyed; I'm talking about their ability to shoot or kill you for not doing so.

eggsalad · December 31, 2017, 05:19:42 PM

It's easier to ask "when should police be able to kill you" and the answer is when you pose a threat to the lives of others. The American problem is that police have been trained that everyone is always a threat to their lives because everyone has razor blades taped to the back of their cap.

maverick · December 31, 2017, 05:35:50 PM

Obviously they need to be able to prove that they thought lives were in danger after using lethal force. I don’t think anyone here would say resisting arrest could warrant capital punishment. People should also be aware that their own negligent behavior could lead to a cop believing they’re in danger.

challengerX · December 31, 2017, 06:33:10 PM

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ban me · December 31, 2017, 07:43:54 PM

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Super Irish · December 31, 2017, 09:48:54 PM

To an extent.

Most of us read about the SWAT guy playing a lethal game of simon says with a drunk pest control man in a hotel recently. That guy hardly posed a threat crawling with his hands in the air, and yet the SWAT guy shot him for failing to follow his EXACT instructions/pulling up his trousers.

If/once law enforcement isn't in clear danger from the allegded assailant, you can't just order them to do the hokey-kokey and if they
fail, they die. That's retarded, and promotes a negative image of the police that are supposed to be for your benefit, not dread once you get pulled over/searched/a visit from... then again, it's already too late as that has circulated already.

MyNameIsCharlie · December 31, 2017, 11:42:57 PM

What's legal and what you should do are two separate things here. Cops have a get to kill you and get off scot free card. They say officer safety, close ranks and they walk. If the police approach you be afraid. There's been over 300 officer involved shootings this year alone. Yet only one black cop has been prosecuted.

Boomdeyadah · January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM

Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM

reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.

What if he had a gun?

MyNameIsCharlie · January 01, 2018, 12:39:38 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM

Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

So you're defending the police shooting us if we move?

Boomdeyadah · January 01, 2018, 12:50:45 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on January 01, 2018, 12:39:38 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

So you're defending the police shooting us if we move?

Well if a cop told me to put my hands up, I would do that and not make it look like I have a weapon in my pocket.

MyNameIsCharlie · January 01, 2018, 12:54:49 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:50:45 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on January 01, 2018, 12:39:38 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

So you're defending the police shooting us if we move?
Well if a cop told me to put my hands up, I would do that and not make it look like I have a weapon in my pocket.

Why do police have the power to force a game of simon says or die?

Boomdeyadah · January 01, 2018, 01:14:51 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on January 01, 2018, 12:54:49 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:50:45 AM
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on January 01, 2018, 12:39:38 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

So you're defending the police shooting us if we move?
Well if a cop told me to put my hands up, I would do that and not make it look like I have a weapon in my pocket.

Why do police have the power to force a game of simon says or die?

Because they are a position of authority? It's not rocket science to comply.

Turkey · January 01, 2018, 01:27:26 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM

Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

Kind of a pointless question. If I were a cop I'd rather get shot than murder an innocent person.

Boomdeyadah · January 01, 2018, 01:33:39 AM

Quote from: Turkey on January 01, 2018, 01:27:26 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

Kind of a pointless question. If I were a cop I'd rather get shot than murder an innocent person.

Sure you would.

Turkey · January 01, 2018, 01:48:10 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 01:33:39 AM

Quote from: Turkey on January 01, 2018, 01:27:26 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

Kind of a pointless question. If I were a cop I'd rather get shot than murder an innocent person.
Sure you would.

Would you prefer to get shot, or murder somebody?

MyNameIsCharlie · January 01, 2018, 01:49:55 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 01:14:51 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on January 01, 2018, 12:54:49 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:50:45 AM
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on January 01, 2018, 12:39:38 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

So you're defending the police shooting us if we move?
Well if a cop told me to put my hands up, I would do that and not make it look like I have a weapon in my pocket.

Why do police have the power to force a game of simon says or die?
Because they are a position of authority? It's not rocket science to comply.

Which is my point. They have the power. We don't. Do they have the right to? No. Do they have the power to? Yes. Comply or die. America is basically a facist state.

Boomdeyadah · January 01, 2018, 01:50:26 AM

Quote from: Turkey on January 01, 2018, 01:48:10 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 01:33:39 AM
Quote from: Turkey on January 01, 2018, 01:27:26 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

Kind of a pointless question. If I were a cop I'd rather get shot than murder an innocent person.
Sure you would.

Would you prefer to get shot, or murder somebody?

I guess it's a good thing you aren't a cop. Such a mindset would just get you killed.

Boomdeyadah · January 01, 2018, 01:55:08 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on January 01, 2018, 01:49:55 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 01:14:51 AM
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on January 01, 2018, 12:54:49 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:50:45 AM
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on January 01, 2018, 12:39:38 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

So you're defending the police shooting us if we move?
Well if a cop told me to put my hands up, I would do that and not make it look like I have a weapon in my pocket.

Why do police have the power to force a game of simon says or die?
Because they are a position of authority? It's not rocket science to comply.

Which is my point. They have the power. We don't. Do they have the right to? No. Do they have the power to? Yes. Comply or die. America is basically a facist state.

Dumb anarchist, don't ever reply to me again.

Turkey · January 01, 2018, 01:58:44 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 01:50:26 AM

Quote from: Turkey on January 01, 2018, 01:48:10 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 01:33:39 AM
Quote from: Turkey on January 01, 2018, 01:27:26 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

Kind of a pointless question. If I were a cop I'd rather get shot than murder an innocent person.
Sure you would.

Would you prefer to get shot, or murder somebody?
I guess it's a good thing you aren't a cop. Such a mindset would just get you killed.

I'm in the navy, and the current position is that we'd rather let a ship take a missile or a plane get shot down than wrongly kill civilians, knowing full well people may die as a result

You didn't answer the question, though.

MyNameIsCharlie · January 01, 2018, 02:27:32 AM

Quote from: Turkey on January 01, 2018, 01:58:44 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 01:50:26 AM
Quote from: Turkey on January 01, 2018, 01:48:10 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 01:33:39 AM
Quote from: Turkey on January 01, 2018, 01:27:26 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

Kind of a pointless question. If I were a cop I'd rather get shot than murder an innocent person.
Sure you would.

Would you prefer to get shot, or murder somebody?
I guess it's a good thing you aren't a cop. Such a mindset would just get you killed.

I'm in the navy, and the current position is that we'd rather let a ship take a missile or a plane get shot down than wrongly kill civilians, knowing full well people may die as a result

You didn't answer the question, though.

He just calles anyone who doesn't surrender ther their rights an anarchist and moves on.

challengerX · January 01, 2018, 07:22:41 AM

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MyNameIsCharlie · January 01, 2018, 10:16:02 AM

Quote from: challengerX on January 01, 2018, 07:22:41 AM

Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:50:45 AM
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on January 01, 2018, 12:39:38 AM
Quote from: Boomdeyadah on January 01, 2018, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: Turkey on December 31, 2017, 04:35:00 PM
reports have claimed the innocent man was shot because he raised his hands, then dropped them.
What if he had a gun?

So you're defending the police shooting us if we move?
Well if a cop told me to put my hands up, I would do that and not make it look like I have a weapon in my pocket.
Plenty of people have been killed by cops even though they followed their directions.

No argument from me. When Johnny Law shows up you play the odds. Complying increases the odds of survival, but doesn't guarantee it.

DAS B00T x2 · January 01, 2018, 05:14:14 PM

The police exist as an unjust representation of the State's absolute monopolization on violence. This, under the common law of the land, gives them the utmost supreme authority to take the lives of those who refuse to recognize their absolute and disgusting authority.

Save lives, ban cops.

Genghis Khan · January 01, 2018, 05:30:26 PM

I don't know who allows them to be killed by cops.

MyNameIsCharlie · January 01, 2018, 07:17:58 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on January 01, 2018, 05:14:14 PM

The police exist as an unjust representation of the State's absolute monopolization on violence. This, under the common law of the land, gives them the utmost supreme authority to take the lives of those who refuse to recognize their absolute and disgusting authority.

Save lives, ban cops.

I don't know about ban. They need to be brought back to what they were. Remove the warrior culture and us vs them mentality. Remind them that they are public servants not action heroes.

FatherlyNick - fuck putin · January 03, 2018, 04:25:36 AM

Rubber bullets? Tear gas?

Ásgeirr · January 03, 2018, 01:30:05 PM

Kind of a ridiculous question to ask. The guy was a dumbass for not following instructions but that doesnt warrant shooting if he didnt pose an immediate threat.

FatherlyNick - fuck putin · January 03, 2018, 02:19:17 PM

Quote from: oss on January 03, 2018, 01:30:05 PM

Kind of a ridiculous question to ask. The guy was a dumbass for not following instructions but that doesnt warrant shooting if he didnt pose an immediate threat.

did you see the footage? They were literally across the street. You think the guy heard what the fuck they were shouting?

Ásgeirr · January 03, 2018, 03:38:13 PM

Quote from: FatherlyNick on January 03, 2018, 02:19:17 PM

Quote from: oss on January 03, 2018, 01:30:05 PM
Kind of a ridiculous question to ask. The guy was a dumbass for not following instructions but that doesnt warrant shooting if he didnt pose an immediate threat.
did you see the footage? They were literally across the street. You think the guy heard what the fuck they were shouting?

no i havent but my second point still stands .-.

FatherlyNick - fuck putin · January 03, 2018, 05:45:36 PM

Quote from: oss on January 03, 2018, 03:38:13 PM

Quote from: FatherlyNick on January 03, 2018, 02:19:17 PM
Quote from: oss on January 03, 2018, 01:30:05 PM
Kind of a ridiculous question to ask. The guy was a dumbass for not following instructions but that doesnt warrant shooting if he didnt pose an immediate threat.
did you see the footage? They were literally across the street. You think the guy heard what the fuck they were shouting?
no i havent but my second point still stands .-.

Yes, absolutely. I'm just saying that you can't follow instructions you cannot hear.