Is T-Mobile going against net neutrality with their Music Freedom service?

Mad Max · November 24, 2014, 02:23:29 PM

For those of you who don't know, earlier this yearT-Mobile began allowing music streaming from certain services that didn't count against your monthly data usage. They began with Spotify, Rdio, Rhapsody, etc, and recently added Soundcloud and Google Play Music to the list.

This was welcomed news to customers who don't have unlimited data usage, and especially those with basic plans with minimal data allowances.

However, proponents of net neutrality have been opposed to the Music Freedom service on the principal that not all data is being treated equally.

Thoughts?

Flee · November 24, 2014, 02:29:16 PM

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Mad Max · November 24, 2014, 02:30:58 PM

Quote from: Flee on November 24, 2014, 02:29:16 PM

Does T-Mobile count as an ISP?

TMo is only a cell provider. They don't do home internet.

Flee · November 24, 2014, 02:35:37 PM

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Mad Max · November 24, 2014, 02:36:35 PM

Quote from: Flee on November 24, 2014, 02:35:37 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on November 24, 2014, 02:30:58 PM
Quote from: Flee on November 24, 2014, 02:29:16 PM
Does T-Mobile count as an ISP?
TMo is only a cell provider. They don't do home internet.
As far as I'm aware, strictly speaking "net neutrality" only applies to actual ISP's and the government. I don't know if T-Mobile would technically fall under that.

Well, they're providing access to internet sites and services, so I would expect them to have to play by the same rules as a traditional ISP.

Dustin · November 24, 2014, 02:40:38 PM

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Flee · November 24, 2014, 02:41:18 PM

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Mad Max · November 24, 2014, 02:43:33 PM

Quote from: Flee on November 24, 2014, 02:41:18 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on November 24, 2014, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: Flee on November 24, 2014, 02:35:37 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on November 24, 2014, 02:30:58 PM
Quote from: Flee on November 24, 2014, 02:29:16 PM
Does T-Mobile count as an ISP?
TMo is only a cell provider. They don't do home internet.
As far as I'm aware, strictly speaking "net neutrality" only applies to actual ISP's and the government. I don't know if T-Mobile would technically fall under that.
Well, they're providing access to internet sites and services, so I would expect them to have to play by the same rules as a traditional ISP.
That is what you would expect, but one of the things I've come to learn about law is that it usually isn't that simlpe. A single word or definition can be read a lot of different ways.

Either way, I'd be inclined to say that this doesn't infringe on net neutrality as there are no disadvantages for customers. T-Mobile is not toggling speeds or making you pay more for certain services. They simply listened to what their clients and statistics said, and then made it so that the most popular music services don't deduct from your mobile data. Admittedly, this is very debatable though.

This is my position too, but I do see it as a bit of grey area in net neutrality, and I see why people might be bothered by this.

No data is being prioritized by TMo. Nothing is being sped up or throttled. It's still all traveling through the pipes the same, it just doesn't effect the customer's data limit.

Kinder Graham · November 24, 2014, 03:28:13 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on November 24, 2014, 02:23:29 PM

that not all data is being treated equally.

Thoughts?

dat socialism doe

Mad Max · November 24, 2014, 03:31:11 PM

Quote from: Kinder on November 24, 2014, 03:28:13 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on November 24, 2014, 02:23:29 PM
that not all data is being treated equally.

Thoughts?
dat socialism doe

..huh?

DAS B00T x2 · November 24, 2014, 04:54:17 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on November 24, 2014, 02:43:33 PM

No data is being prioritized by TMo. Nothing is being sped up or throttled. It's still all traveling through the pipes the same, it just doesn't effect the customer's data limit.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking and why it's not an issue in regards to net neutrality.
Heck, this is probably a good thing in a way. With people seeing such heavy usage not affect anything negatively, more folks may start to wonder why the hell cellular data plans so freaking expensive and maybe sway other carriers to get competitive like this.

BrenMan 94 · November 25, 2014, 07:35:21 AM

Meanwhile Comcast is the devil for making Netflix pay for more infrastructure so that they can deliver higher quality streams.

Mad Max · November 25, 2014, 09:56:51 AM

Quote from: BrenMan 94 on November 25, 2014, 07:35:21 AM

Meanwhile Comcast is the devil for making Netflix pay for more infrastructure so that they can deliver higher quality streams.

that scenario is different, though.

BrenMan 94 · November 25, 2014, 10:07:30 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on November 25, 2014, 09:56:51 AM

Quote from: BrenMan 94 on November 25, 2014, 07:35:21 AM
Meanwhile Comcast is the devil for making Netflix pay for more infrastructure so that they can deliver higher quality streams.
that scenario is different, though.

Data isn't being prioritized in that scenario, either, it's just going down a different road.

Imagine the internet as a highway. Netflix is taking the bus lane.

Mad Max · November 25, 2014, 10:11:20 AM

Quote from: BrenMan 94 on November 25, 2014, 10:07:30 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on November 25, 2014, 09:56:51 AM
Quote from: BrenMan 94 on November 25, 2014, 07:35:21 AM
Meanwhile Comcast is the devil for making Netflix pay for more infrastructure so that they can deliver higher quality streams.
that scenario is different, though.
Data isn't being prioritized in that scenario, either, it's just going down a different road.

Imagine the internet as a highway. Netflix is taking the bus lane.

In that scenario, Comcast is charging a different price to Netflix, something that would be prohibitive to a smaller company.

BrenMan 94 · November 25, 2014, 10:14:28 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on November 25, 2014, 10:11:20 AM

Quote from: BrenMan 94 on November 25, 2014, 10:07:30 AM
Quote from: Mad Max on November 25, 2014, 09:56:51 AM
Quote from: BrenMan 94 on November 25, 2014, 07:35:21 AM
Meanwhile Comcast is the devil for making Netflix pay for more infrastructure so that they can deliver higher quality streams.
that scenario is different, though.
Data isn't being prioritized in that scenario, either, it's just going down a different road.

Imagine the internet as a highway. Netflix is taking the bus lane.
In that scenario, Comcast is charging a different price to Netflix, something that would be prohibitive to a smaller company.

They're charging a different price to Cogent, Netflix's ISP, who are in turn charging Netflix, because of the additional infrastructure that's having to be built specifically for Netflix traffic.

Mad Max · November 25, 2014, 10:16:25 AM

Quote from: BrenMan 94 on November 25, 2014, 10:14:28 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on November 25, 2014, 10:11:20 AM
Quote from: BrenMan 94 on November 25, 2014, 10:07:30 AM
Quote from: Mad Max on November 25, 2014, 09:56:51 AM
Quote from: BrenMan 94 on November 25, 2014, 07:35:21 AM
Meanwhile Comcast is the devil for making Netflix pay for more infrastructure so that they can deliver higher quality streams.
that scenario is different, though.
Data isn't being prioritized in that scenario, either, it's just going down a different road.

Imagine the internet as a highway. Netflix is taking the bus lane.
In that scenario, Comcast is charging a different price to Netflix, something that would be prohibitive to a smaller company.
They're charging a different price to Cogent, Netflix's ISP, who are in turn charging Netflix, because of the additional infrastructure that's having to be built specifically for Netflix traffic.

Seems like a cop-out on Comcast's part, though. Instead of "our customers need more bandwidth, we should beef up our network" they go with "our customers use a lot of Netflix, we'd better charge Netflix more."

BrenMan 94 · November 25, 2014, 10:20:52 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on November 25, 2014, 10:16:25 AM

Quote from: BrenMan 94 on November 25, 2014, 10:14:28 AM
Quote from: Mad Max on November 25, 2014, 10:11:20 AM
Quote from: BrenMan 94 on November 25, 2014, 10:07:30 AM
Quote from: Mad Max on November 25, 2014, 09:56:51 AM
Quote from: BrenMan 94 on November 25, 2014, 07:35:21 AM
Meanwhile Comcast is the devil for making Netflix pay for more infrastructure so that they can deliver higher quality streams.
that scenario is different, though.
Data isn't being prioritized in that scenario, either, it's just going down a different road.

Imagine the internet as a highway. Netflix is taking the bus lane.
In that scenario, Comcast is charging a different price to Netflix, something that would be prohibitive to a smaller company.
They're charging a different price to Cogent, Netflix's ISP, who are in turn charging Netflix, because of the additional infrastructure that's having to be built specifically for Netflix traffic.
Seems like a cop-out on Comcast's part, though. Instead of "our customers need more bandwidth, we should beef up our network" they go with "our customers use a lot of Netflix, we'd better charge Netflix more."

That's definitely a valid argument. If they had gone the Time Warner route and negotiated with Netflix to share the infrastructure costs, this whole issue would be non-existent.